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GreatSaiyaman123

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Super Saiyan said:
Yamcha rushes in initially and Saibaman is surprised by his speed.

Goku was surprised by Yakon's speed as well. I suppose Yakon is way above him as well.
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If you follow the red impact marks in the next panel it shows Yamcha pushing the Saibaman back with his barrage of punches.

No, it shows their blows colliding. What we see is pretty much the same as this:
0032-004.jpg

Saibaman jumps away to escape, you can see sweat dripping off him to show worry. Yamcha follows him to the top of the rock, Saibaman tries to lunge at Yamcha who gets behind Saibaman through sheer speed. As CC has said that is not the afterimage technique. With an uncharged KHH Yamcha ends the fight. That seems like a pretty clear advantage to me.

Why does the Saibaman jumping away implies he's inferior? Can't he just be jumping because he failed to get the upperhand as much as Yamcha did? You're more like choosing the more convinient of the two situations, as Yamcha never even hits the Saibaman.

But it is. You can see Yamcha's image fades away only after the Saibaman jumps through it. He then fails to kill the Saibaman with that Kamehameha. Charged or not, the Saibaman would've been killed if he didn't rival Yamcha. 18k Kui believes he could've killed 24k Vegeta merely by blasting him off guard, so it stands to reason a stronger character attacking a far weaker one with his pants down would be fatal.

What did Saibaman actually achieve during this fight? He barely held Yamcha off during the initial barrage, then got defeated by an uncharged ki blast. The fight gave Yamcha enough confidence to take on all of the Saibaman. The gap is pretty large, but not large enough that Yamcha can physically one shot.

He matched Yamcha blow to blow, survived his Kamehameha and then killed him. That's more than Yamcha did, if you ask me. Granted Kamikaze attacks are rather strong, but if Yamcha were so so superior to a point where he can take on 4 Saibamans that one wouldn't have survived the Kamehameha.

I'd also find worth noting that Yamcha failed to get out of the Saibaman's hold, though holding someone does tends to be pretty effective (See Goku vs Raditz or #16 vs Perfect Cell).

Except this is literally what happened.

It isn't. With "Overwhelming" I meant Yamcha ragdolling the Saibaman around without breaking a sweat (A là Goku vs Cell) but no, they're locked in combat and his Kamehameha didn't even kill the Saibaman. If he were as superior as you claim, the Saibaman would've been as good as dead.


Captain Cadaver said:
Yet Yamcha never implied it was a fully charged one. It was little different from the one Goku used on Nappa, which through character statements, was suggested to be barely charged at all.

We did get a panel of Yamcha charging the Kamehameha. Nonetheless charged or not, that Kamehameha oughta have killed the Saibaman if he were far weaker.

He didn't really have a reason to if he really found it difficult. It's not as if he had to take them all on when he could've simply gone back to the sidelines if he knew any more would be getting in over his head.

I'm pretty sure one of the more serious fighters such as Piccolo would've called Yamcha out if it was a bluff, seeing as how putting one of their allies at risk without necessity wouldn't be a smart move.

Not really. Yamcha is shown to be quite arrogant, having underestimated his opponents a lot in Part I (See him calling Tenshinhan or Shen off before their fight starts at the Budokais). Beating a single Saibaman rather easily would inflate his ego enough to make him want to fight all four.

Well, does Vegeta counts as a "more serious fighter"?
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The Zanzoken is consistently shown to create an afterimage of the user, whilst Yamcha's attack didn't.

The Saibaman fell on Yamcha's afterimage, though. You can see on the scan I showed to SSJ2 earlier that the Saibaman jumps through Yamcha's image, and it only fades away after the Saibaman hits it.
 

Captain Cadaver

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Goku was surprised by Yakon's speed as well. I suppose Yakon is way above him as well.
Being surprised how quick a bulky fighter is and outright failing in tagging an opponent are two completely different situations.

We did get a panel of Yamcha charging the Kamehameha. Nonetheless charged or not, that Kamehameha oughta have killed the Saibaman if he were far weaker.
Not really. Durability, more than any other stat, can be a prime source of plot armour, such as a fatigued Galu enduring Piccolo's strongest attack at the 23rd TB which surpassed the Super Kamehameha, Goku took Oozaru Vegeta's attacks, Vegeta surviving both a KKx4 Kamehameha and a Genki-Dama in the same fight, etc. The Saibaiman's purpose was to kill off Yamcha and show the battle would be far from an easy one, so it could be one with a strong case of plot armour in order for it to fulfil its purpose in the plot.

Even if ignoring these meta aspects, the Saibaimen having significant durability is still a possibility. It's also worth noting Nappa's reaction implied that amplification or not, the Kamehameha solidly overpowered the Saibaiman by a similar extent to Tenshinhan's physical strikes.

Not really. Yamcha is shown to be quite arrogant, having underestimated his opponents a lot in Part I (See him calling Tenshinhan or Shen off before their fight starts at the Budokais). Beating a single Saibaman rather easily would inflate his ego enough to make him want to fight all four.
There's a difference between arrogance and outright stupidity. In the cases with Ten and Shen, it was before he even fought them and his opinion changed soon afterwards. That's very different from having fought someone and gained a good grasp of their capabilities.

Well, does Vegeta counts as a "more serious fighter"?
0152656b835236055dececdb11c234ba.jpg
Vegeta knew of the self-destruction, and it's made apparent in the very same page that's what he was referring to.

The Saibaman fell on Yamcha's afterimage, though. You can see on the scan I showed to SSJ2 earlier that the Saibaman jumps through Yamcha's image, and it only fades away after the Saibaman hits it.
It doesn't really seem quite the same. Even when an opponent would strike through it, the shape would remain visible.

0048-002.png

We do get to see some colour in the lines as the Saibaiman jumps forward, but that could be just as easily be Yamcha outspeeding it just before the attack. It's important to remember tha manga was originally a black and white medium and without colour, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that was a Zanzoken in the slightest.
 

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