Do you see SSJ2 as the right way to access grade 3 kinda power?

[ahill1]

I think some people, me included, see SSJ2 from Gohan in the CGs, the right path to access the grade 2 power from Trunks, though without getting the muscles disadvantage. Basically, he hitting on that kind of a boost but utilizing it in an effective way, being a byproduct of a powered up MSSJ state, who had already eliminated the restlessness off the state... Making its powered up version less straining than the grade states associated with SSJ, non-mastered.

There are other though who believe the MSSJ was the way to assess the grade 2 or even grade 3 kinda state without suffering from the drawbacks, interpreting the way Vegeta scolded Trunks believing they'd do an even more impressive transformation as Goku actually not transforming and still assessing the grade states bestowed power without suffering drawbacks.

If you believe in the first take, would you have the ssj2 multiplier roughly the same as whatever you have for grade 3 as well?

 

[SSJ2]

It's tough to say. Not even considering power scaling, just based on reading the manga, the gap between SSJ and Grade 2 is already shown to be enormous. SSJ Vegeta = Initial Semi Cell << Semi Cell << Grade 2 Vegeta. That has to be a 2x gap at minimum imo based on how the transformations and power ups were portrayed. Then Trunks powers up and seems to be many levels beyond even that. A 2x difference between Grade 2 and Grade 3 is about the least I can see being possible. I guess that would work out to be equal to SSJ2 if you believe in a 4x multiplier.

If you take the SEG multipliers as fact then there's no way that SSJ2 can equal Grade 3 imo. I don't use them but many do.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

It's tough to say. Not even considering power scaling, just based on reading the manga, the gap between SSJ and Grade 2 is already shown to be enormous. SSJ Vegeta = Initial Semi Cell << Semi Cell << Grade 2 Vegeta. That has to be a 2x gap at minimum imo based on how the transformations and power ups were portrayed. Then Trunks powers up and seems to be many levels beyond even that. A 2x difference between Grade 2 and Grade 3 is about the least I can see being possible. I guess that would work out to be equal to SSJ2 if you believe in a 4x multiplier.

If you take the SEG multipliers as fact then there's no way that SSJ2 can equal Grade 3 imo. I don't use them but many do.

SEG ssj2 2x boost is really low

 

[KyuubiAhri]

grade 3 is stronger than ssj2

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Thematically I think MSSJ was the true way, even if power-wise they aren’t comparable. SSJ2 is a whole different thing. It’s a “real” transformation, while the Grade forms were just variations on SSJ1. In a way, Grade 3 is an “artificial” form.

 

[SIAD]

I have:

SSJ Grade 3 = SSJ2 Grade 2.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Grade 3 > Ssj 2 > Grade 2

 

[ahill1]

Semi Cell (initially) -- 90
SSJ Future Trunks -- 94
SSJ Vegeta -- 100

Semi Cell (FP) -- 110
SSJg2 Vegeta -- 150

Perfect Cell (vs vegeta) -- 300
SSJg3 future Trunks -- 375

Those would be ideal gaps to me. It'd make grade 3 a roughly 4x boost. SSJ2 could be that, I think ppl would use it a lot back then. Though idk, maybe 4x may be pushing it a little too.



SSJ Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors -- 400
MSSJ Goku -- 600
Cell (vs Goku) -- 660
MSSJ Gohan -- 800
Cell (vs Gohan) -- 800

Cell (full power) -- 1,750
SSJ2 Gohan -- 3,200

Super Perfect Cell -- 3,000


... I think that wouldn't be too bad either.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t like SSJ2 being more than 2x SSJ. A lot of wasted space between FP Cell and the SSJs for no reason at all. And it snowballs into other forms being unnecessary strong in other sagas.

 

[ahill1]

I'd say it's hard to fit Cell with his full power if it were a 2x at least for Gohan then. If Cell had already an edge, even if slight, before going full power (as he dismissively kicked Gohan away when Gohan tried to stop him from doing whatever to the Z senshi) and a huge power up to full power, plus mimicking Trunks' grade 3, even if done by him when weakened, left him way below Gohan still... I find it hard to see that as a 2x gap then. Some ppl point at Gohan not losing his SSJ2 despite falling to below half power as indicative SSJ2 can't be 2x... In the sense that if he fell below his SSJ2 power, he should revert back to SSJ... But idk, that isn't concrete evidence. Though Gohan saying he lose more than half of his power to Goku, instead of going a note up and saying he is even weaker than normally, could mean something, idk.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah in the CG SSJ2 definitely didn't look like a 2x boost. I honestly think whoever came up with the SEG multipliers (even supposing it was AT) didn't examine the shown gaps thoroughly. And in the case of AT writing it... that was when he thought SSJ3 was SSJ2 lol.

 

[Papasmurf]

The only reason I follow the SEG multipliers is because there's nothing else that's official and the people who write Super probably follow them. But in the context of the Cell Games I can't see SSJ2 only being 2x at all.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ Gohan: 50
FP Cell: 70
SSJ2 Gohan: 100

Sounds alright to me

@Papasmurf I don’t think DBS writers even know what a multiplier is.

 

[Papasmurf]

SSJ Gohan: 50
FP Cell: 70
SSJ2 Gohan: 100

Sounds alright to me

@Papasmurf I don’t think DBS writers even know what a multiplier is.

Eh at least they know SSJ2 is a better form than 3. GT writers didn't even realize that form existed.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I genuinely think Toei was just too cheap to bother with the sparks. Vegeta being SSJ1 against Super 17 is dumb.

 

[Papasmurf]

I genuinely think Toei was just too cheap to bother with the sparks. Vegeta being SSJ1 against Super 17 is dumb.

I think if they remembered it Goku would've used it more than as a single burst against Rild lol

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don’t like SSJ2 being more than 2x SSJ. A lot of wasted space between FP Cell and the SSJs for no reason at all. And it snowballs into other forms being unnecessary strong in other sagas.

So Less than Half Gohan is weaker than Ssj Gohan?

 

[Power Level Guy]

SSJ Gohan: 50
FP Cell: 70
SSJ2 Gohan: 100

Sounds alright to me

@Papasmurf I don’t think DBS writers even know what a multiplier is.

Cell's massive power up is smaller than his powerup in his second form?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell's massive power up is smaller than his powerup in his second form?

Semi Cell didn't do a 1.4x power up.

So Less than Half Gohan is weaker than Ssj Gohan?

Yeah.

 

[Power Level Guy]

How do you justify that?

At least give Gohan a rage boost or something, my goodness.