Do you think all of these references are representative of power gaps?

[Natasha Romanoff]

Goku Black & Android 18 stated that Vegeta pushed them too far, as well as use the term "human" (18 only uses it in the manga):

Spoiler

When Goku Black defeats Vegeta, he claims that he's just a warm up, in a similar way, Android 18 doesn't consider Vegeta that great even after hearing that he is stronger than Goku (in the manga she calls him nothing special):

Spoiler

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P10.2-4, P11.1
Context: after continuing to fight No.18
Vegeta: “This is really starting to annoy me. You act as if nothing’s happened…”
No.18: “I’m surprised. To think that a flesh-and-blood human could be so good, even if you are an alien. Is this man called ‘Son Goku’ even stronger?”
Vegeta: “Don’t kid yourself. He may have temporarily slipped by me, but now things have returned to normal and I should be on top again.”
No.18: “What? So you’re nothing special. Either of you.”

Trunks had the same wrong thought about Goku/Goku Black while fighting as he had with Vegeta/18, just to be corrected by Vegeta and Piccolo respectively:

Spoiler

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”


So, what do you think about all of this? Is the gap between SSJR Goku Black with Blue Goku/Vegeta the same or similar as the one 18 had over SSJ Vegeta?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That’s pretty much what I have. The Saiyans can do something when Black/18 are sandbagging, but when they get serious it’s a slaughter. Something like 1.25-1.33x.

Black’s lead is arguably even bigger since he easily dispatched Goku, Vegeta and Trunks at once when 18 probably couldn’t handle all the Z Fighters on her own, but Black might have powered up for that fight.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Black’s lead is arguably even bigger since he easily dispatched Goku, Vegeta and Trunks at once when 18 probably couldn’t handle all the Z Fighters on her own, but Black might have powered up for that fight.

17 stated that 18 can't probably handle them all at once, but Vegeta stated that everyone that has come were trash, I think Vegeta holds more weight on this as 18 proved to be able to tank SSJ Trunks' sword without effort (as well as he said it at a point in which none of them were giving their all).

Also Episode 57 is inconsistent, but afterwards, Trunks is shown to not be of help before of obtaining SSJ Rage.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

17 stated that 18 can't probably handle them all at once, but Vegeta stated that everyone that has come were trash, I think Vegeta holds more weight on this as 18 proved to be able to tank SSJ Trunks' sword without effort (as well as he said it at a point in which none of them were giving their all).

Also Episode 57 is inconsistent, but afterwards, Trunks is shown to not be of help before of obtaining SSJ Rage.

Android Saga Vegeta was at his peak when it comes to trash talking, but 18 blocking Trunks definitely fits better with Vegeta's line. I do think she'd have more trouble than Black did, though. Black was just dancing around these guys.

Yeah Trunks isn't anything special here, but he's worth counting since he was on the effort, I guess.

 

[Animelover5487]

17 stated that 18 can't probably handle them all at once, but Vegeta stated that everyone that has come were trash, I think Vegeta holds more weight on this as 18 proved to be able to tank SSJ Trunks' sword without effort (as well as he said it at a point in which none of them were giving their all).

Also Episode 57 is inconsistent, but afterwards, Trunks is shown to not be of help before of obtaining SSJ Rage.

Shouldn't Trunks be way below SSJB anyway? I mean just a few days ago he was oneshotted by SSJ3 Goku.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Shouldn't Trunks be way below SSJB anyway? I mean just a few days ago he was oneshotted by SSJ3 Goku.

Anime is inconsistent Af. It had him fighting side by side with Blue goku. Afaik he was even able to dodge and parry some of SsjR Black attacks

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Trunks survived SsjR kamehameha as well

 

[Animelover5487]

Yeah I don't know how to make sense of that. It would had made more sense if Trunks had unlocked his Rage form while fighting Vegeta and had used it from the start explaining why he wasn't instantly killed by Rose Black.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Shouldn't Trunks be way below SSJB anyway? I mean just a few days ago he was oneshotted by SSJ3 Goku.

Logically, Trunks is treated as someone irrelevant before of reaching SSJ Rage. He doesn't add that much to the equation.

Anime is inconsistent Af. It had him fighting side by side with Blue goku. Afaik he was even able to dodge and parry some of SsjR Black attacks

I agree, but that doesn't mean is inconsistent in everything, at least not when it comes to how Goku, Vegeta and Black compare to each other.

 

[Animelover5487]

Logically, Trunks is treated as someone irrelevant before of reaching SSJ Rage. He doesn't add that much to the equation.

He was able to provide backup to Blue Goku vs Rose Black in only SSJ2 during the first trip. Blocking his ki blade and knocking him into a building. And he was no more injured that Goku was after being hit by Black's KHH.

In some ways he performed better against Rose Black than Blue Vegeta did during the first trip, who was basically oneshotted by Black's ki blade.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

He was able to provide backup to Blue Goku vs Rose Black in only SSJ2 during the first trip. Blocking his ki blade and knocking him into a building. And he was no more injured that Goku was after being hit by Black's KHH.

In some ways he performed better against Rose Black than Blue Vegeta did during the first trip, who was basically oneshotted by Black's ki blade.

I mean after the 2nd trip. Episode 57 is inconsistent and/or its power scalling wasn't given any importance after that.

 

[Animelover5487]

I mean after the 2nd trip. Episode 57 is inconsistent and/or its power scalling wasn't given any importance after that.

True. Do you think Trunks got any stronger from his fight with Vegeta? He was shown using the Galick Gun and Final Flash, implying that their were more sparring sessions.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

True. Do you think Trunks got any stronger from his fight with Vegeta? He was shown using the Galick Gun and Final Flash, implying that their were more sparring sessions.

My bad, I meant after the first trip and not after the second. Answering your question, well I consider that Trunks could've made gains in relation to his prior self from the arc but is not Blue lvl yet, he is not Blue lvl until he reaches SSJ Rage. But Trunks is pretty much a character too dificult to estimate on this entire arc.