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Was thinking about keeping up with it again since it’s the closest thing to a DBZ sequel we have. Is anyone else reading it? Thoughts?
I got caught up a couple months ago for the first time in a while and it still hasn't progressed very passed then. But I enjoyed the read so go for it.
I always find it funny that despite all the hate thrown onto GT by the DBM cast and fanbase, in the end its not only a better sequel to DBZ but also more consistent with the original manga(which you'd think the writers are trying to live up to with their hatred of GT)
I'd argue DBM in totality was more headcanony and contradictory of the original manga, what with shit like King Cold being Cell tier (making the whole exchange with Trunks total nonsense and polluting the fanbase for years with that headcanon.)I wouldn't say more consistent considering the existence of the Super #17 arc, but certainly less of a disservice to the spirit of the original work.
Sounds more like an average chapter of Part 2 OP than headcanonI'd argue DBM in totality was more headcanony and contradictory of the original manga, what with shit like King Cold being Cell tier (making the whole exchange with Trunks total nonsense and polluting the fanbase for years with that headcanon.)
Even though the Super #17 Arc had some major inconsistencies (eg. a Galu far stronger than SS3 Gotenks not just screaming his way out of Hell, Galu not using a Shunkan Ido 10x Kamehameha to assure Super #17 couldn't absorb it, etc.) most of them are pretty self-contained idiocy that doesn't have far reaching effects on the franchise as a whole. Even the "#17 was meant to be stronger than Cell" line doesn't seem to be as much of a Super tier plot hole as I remembered when Gero explained it as having been a result of a personality defect in both timelines' #17s and Gero had conceded Cell's completion may be a pipedream (though him putting faith in what's part of his perfect piece surpassing that magnum opus he's to be absorbed by is still pretty stupid).I wouldn't say more consistent considering the existence of the Super #17 arc, but certainly less of a disservice to the spirit of the original work.
You're right in that a plot hole started the arc's inciting incident, but the target is off there as the main plot hole is Trunks sensing #17's Ki to confirm his identity when that should obviously be impossible. #17 getting so strong though is less a plot hole and more of a notable contrivance as it was established in the same episode #17 would be far stronger without his rebellious personality (which had been quashed at the time) and it could be assumed the link between both #17s being in sync could lead to a power up.Super #17 arc is based entirely on a giant plot hole from start to finish and featured such idiotic, forgetful writing as #17 without explanation (which even Super provided, however flimsy) being able to defeat GT Trunks without effort,
This was also established in Freeza Arc filler that GT was likely drawing from here, and despite its link to it, the Kaioshinkai is separate from the macrocosm rather than being directly part of the afterlife. Moreover, this is only an inconsistency rather than a plot hole as Goku defeating Freeza and Cell or not would still have little bearing on his escape from Hell.Cell and Freeza being immortal in the afterlife when the opposite was stated for Vegeta in the Boo arc
This still doesn't account for Goku defeating Cold in his timeline too despite being far less straight to the point than Trunks, nor is there an explanation on why Cold would resort to stealing Trunks' sword when shocked at Freeza's death instead of transforming and beating him outright. This is a clear plot hole as both timelines in the Cell Arc cease to function if Trunks was as powerful as the arc's antagonist.By comparison King Cold being far stronger in his "later forms" is at least explainable when Frost has the same set of forms as Freeza does and Trunks wouldn't have given him the time to transform when he clearly didn't with Cell.
Keep in mind Nail was a far superior case than the average Namekians though. Also, the problem is that this causes a plot hole within the Freeza Arc of the Namekians not fusing together in an attempt to stop Freeza if this were possible. This was already a questionable element in the Freeza Arc, but on its own it can at least be assumed the power of the remaining Namekians wouldn't be enough to stop Freeza. Both DBM and Super completely contradicting that retroactively damages the integrity of the Freeza Arc's plot. Moreover, bringing up Saonel and Pirina as an example of it being a believable contrivance doesn't work when the averaged inhabitants of U6 are stronomically superior to their U7 counterparts (eg. Cabba and Caulifla compared to any of the pre-SSJ Saiyans).Gas Carcolh is a bit of an asspull but with Nail alone providing a several-fold boost for Piccolo and there being a hundred Namekians, plus Piccolo's insane gainz speed after fusing with Nail in the Boo arc (and Super displaying the U6 merged Namekians and the Namekian Savior as relevant to if not far stronger than any Boo arc top tiers), I can somewhat buy it.
You're right in that a plot hole started the arc's inciting incident, but the target is off there as the main plot hole is Trunks sensing #17's Ki to confirm his identity when that should obviously be impossible. #17 getting so strong though is less a plot hole and more of a notable contrivance as it was established in the same episode #17 would be far stronger without his rebellious personality (which had been quashed at the time) and it could be assumed the link between both #17s being in sync could lead to a power up.
This was also established in Freeza Arc filler that GT was likely drawing from here, and despite its link to it, the Kaioshinkai is separate from the macrocosm rather than being directly part of the afterlife. Moreover, this is only an inconsistency rather than a plot hole as Goku defeating Freeza and Cell or not would still have little bearing on his escape from Hell.
This still doesn't account for Goku defeating Cold in his timeline too despite being far less straight to the point than Trunks, nor is there an explanation on why Cold would resort to stealing Trunks' sword when shocked at Freeza's death instead of transforming and beating him outright. This is a clear plot hole as both timelines in the Cell Arc cease to function if Trunks was as powerful as the arc's antagonist.
Moori confirmed that he hadn't been informed prior that Freeza was definitely attacking the people of his planet, he'd just heard a "rumor." Keep in mind that after the cataclysm there were only about 100 Namekians left, and they lived simple lives harvesting trees rather than engaging in advanced technological pursuits as they did prior to Molestation Master Guru and Kami's time. A lack of communication could be blamed for the deaths of the people on Namek in early Z, especially when Tsuno (the elder that Vegeta killed) seemed unaware that all the other villages were wiped out too.Keep in mind Nail was a far superior case than the average Namekians though. Also, the problem is that this causes a plot hole within the Freeza Arc of the Namekians not fusing together in an attempt to stop Freeza if this were possible. This was already a questionable element in the Freeza Arc, but on its own it can at least be assumed the power of the remaining Namekians wouldn't be enough to stop Freeza. Both DBM and Super completely contradicting that retroactively damages the integrity of the Freeza Arc's plot. Moreover, bringing up Saonel and Pirina as an example of it being a believable contrivance doesn't work when the averaged inhabitants of U6 are stronomically superior to their U7 counterparts (eg. Cabba and Caulifla compared to any of the pre-SSJ Saiyans).
4th form Cold ~ Cell
Bra being near enough a Mary Sue
Galu advised Gohan to attack Boo while he was transforming from absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, so Galu could've just used a Shunkan Idou KHH as Cold was about to go into his 3rd form when he sensed that Cold's inner power far surpassed his own. It's bullshit but not moreso than shit that happens in other shonen all the time like Zabuza not being roflstomped by Shinobi War arc Kakashi or Crocodile's ridiculous prison power up.
There are a few good special chapters, like the Tapion and Saiyan empire chapters (even though how the universe formed is 100% retarded with Bardock.) One of the Gast chapters had amazing art, but that's where the compliments end. Most of the timelines are just one event changing (which amounts to just the villains slaughtering the heroes in various shades of terrible art.) Many of the universes themselves are contrived, relying on shoddy logic to actually exist in the first place. The Bojack chapter is infamous for this.I really like most special chapters, even if they slow the pacing of the tournament. Very interesting what ifs, there's only a couple bad ones (Like the new Broly one, and the redundant Bojack kills Gohan one with shitty art).
If Cold's as strong as android 18 or android 17 when he first appeared, then that makes him ridiculously strong. When Cold appeared, he would literally have fodderized Trunks and Goku with his pinkie. That's how big the difference in power is between them. The fact that Cold in the mainline series never once even considered that is a massive contradiction to a series that prides itself on being the best continuation of DBZ.He's actually only said to be comparable to the Androids. The other two transformations that make him comparable to Cell are said to have been unlocked by Ginyu, so he's not that strong... Not that it makes things any less contrived since Freeza is supposed to be the strongest.
Bra being considered a Mary Sue has been a boiling pot for a long time in the fandom. It started with Bra directly disobeying Vegito's orders and killing Zangya and Bra being stronger than Broly when she was born. By themselves these could be ignored, but it got worse due to Bra's arrogant and prideful attitude and what came next. Her deal with "Cold" and getting beaten to the point of death, only for her to be hiding a Senzu bean the entire time in her asscheeks is what caused it all to explode. Then you had her asspulling all these different inane techniques while having Goku and Vegeta basking in techniques even they don't know. Finally culminating in Majin Bra slaughtering the entire stand, the reveal that even as a child Bra hasn't been different (She actually killed Goten when she was a child.) The character assassination of Vegito by revealing that he actually promised to kill her all this time, which makes no sense with how they treated each other this entire time. Then there's the talk no jutsu everyone laughs at.What makes you think that? She's certainly powerful, but she causes more problems than she solves. Vegetto is definitely a Gary-Stu though.