Dragon Ball Multiverse

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Was thinking about keeping up with it again since it’s the closest thing to a DBZ sequel we have. Is anyone else reading it? Thoughts?

 

[Symbiote]

I used to read it but after 30 or so chapters I realized it was garbage.

 

[Southern Gothic]

I got caught up a couple months ago for the first time in a while and it still hasn't progressed very passed then. But I enjoyed the read so go for it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I got caught up a couple months ago for the first time in a while and it still hasn't progressed very passed then. But I enjoyed the read so go for it.

It progresses veeeery slowly. Only a page a week I think, and tons of specials in between. When I stopped reading in 2017 they were doing a U13 special (The universe Goku never bumped his head) before starting Goku vs Oob. 4 years later and Goku vs Oob is still going on.

Seeing they’re doing Goku vs Oob makes me wanna read it though. Oob was done poorly in GT.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I gave up on it years ago, around the time of one of its several pointless side chapters. It's a typical wish-fulfilment fanfic at best with it being an excuse to bring a lot of previous characters together (if you can even count some of the very different versions as the same character) or offer shine to ones that never really had much (which is also pretty hollow when most of them are different versions rather than the same character) and obvious problems such as Bra being near enough a Mary Sue, and that's not even getting into it having some Super tier power inconsistencies (eg. SS3 Goku at full power ~ Gotenks Boo). Doesn't help that the side chapters were all pointless other than maybe the ones with things such as needing to explain how Cell beat the Dragon Team (Gohan doesn't give it his all in the beam struggle, what else is there that needs explaining?).

 

[Papasmurf]

DBM is probably the most overrated fanfiction I've ever read. It's moderately better than the Moro arc of Super, but even the other arcs of Super have more things going for it than Multiverse does, plus the entire thing is full of idiocy, garbage headcanons that contradict the original manga (which you'd think the writers are trying to live up to with their hatred of GT), and pointless side chapters that almost never add anything meaningful. Power chain is almost as bad as DBS animu and Bleach too. It's also funny that the writers poke fun at the GaryStu-ization of Beerus and Whis, yet wack off Bra just as much and Broly probably more. I'd even read the Granolah cancer over bothering to reread the whole thing (despite remembering little past Vegetto vs. and Ginyu-Bra).

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

(which you'd think the writers are trying to live up to with their hatred of GT)

I always find it funny that despite all the hate thrown onto GT by the DBM cast and fanbase, in the end its not only a better sequel to DBZ but also more consistent with the original manga

 

[Papasmurf]

I wouldn't say more consistent considering the existence of the Super #17 arc, but certainly less of a disservice to the spirit of the original work.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I wouldn't say more consistent considering the existence of the Super #17 arc, but certainly less of a disservice to the spirit of the original work.

I'd argue DBM in totality was more headcanony and contradictory of the original manga, what with shit like King Cold being Cell tier (making the whole exchange with Trunks total nonsense and polluting the fanbase for years with that headcanon.)

 

[Papasmurf]

I'd argue DBM in totality was more headcanony and contradictory of the original manga, what with shit like King Cold being Cell tier (making the whole exchange with Trunks total nonsense and polluting the fanbase for years with that headcanon.)

Sounds more like an average chapter of Part 2 OP than headcanon

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I wouldn't say more consistent considering the existence of the Super #17 arc, but certainly less of a disservice to the spirit of the original work.

Even though the Super #17 Arc had some major inconsistencies (eg. a Galu far stronger than SS3 Gotenks not just screaming his way out of Hell, Galu not using a Shunkan Ido 10x Kamehameha to assure Super #17 couldn't absorb it, etc.) most of them are pretty self-contained idiocy that doesn't have far reaching effects on the franchise as a whole. Even the "#17 was meant to be stronger than Cell" line doesn't seem to be as much of a Super tier plot hole as I remembered when Gero explained it as having been a result of a personality defect in both timelines' #17s and Gero had conceded Cell's completion may be a pipedream (though him putting faith in what's part of his perfect piece surpassing that magnum opus he's to be absorbed by is still pretty stupid).
Compared to that, such plot-breaking elements as 4th form Cold ~ Cell or Gast Carcolh > Evil Boo that destroy any semblance of stakes within the Freeza and Cell Arcs make even the biggest plot holes in GT seem like parts of peak fiction.

 

[Papasmurf]

I prefer GT as a product (although by no means enough that watching the BSDB arc didn't feel like torture to me), but I have to disagree there. Super #17 arc is based entirely on a giant plot hole from start to finish and featured such idiotic, forgetful writing as #17 without explanation (which even Super provided, however flimsy) being able to defeat GT Trunks without effort, Cell and Freeza being immortal in the afterlife when the opposite was stated for Vegeta in the Boo arc and so on. By comparison King Cold being far stronger in his "later forms" is at least explainable when Frost has the same set of forms as Freeza does and Trunks wouldn't have given him the time to transform when he clearly didn't with Cell. Gas Carcolh is a bit of an asspull but with Nail alone providing a several-fold boost for Piccolo and there being a hundred Namekians, plus Piccolo's insane gainz speed after fusing with Nail in the Boo arc (and Super displaying the U6 merged Namekians and the Namekian Savior as relevant to if not far stronger than any Boo arc top tiers), I can somewhat buy it. I can't buy anything in the Super #17 arc beyond the regular #17 purposefully giving away the fused form's weakness so as to be saved the fate of being a slave to his Hell counterpart.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Super #17 arc is based entirely on a giant plot hole from start to finish and featured such idiotic, forgetful writing as #17 without explanation (which even Super provided, however flimsy) being able to defeat GT Trunks without effort,

You're right in that a plot hole started the arc's inciting incident, but the target is off there as the main plot hole is Trunks sensing #17's Ki to confirm his identity when that should obviously be impossible. #17 getting so strong though is less a plot hole and more of a notable contrivance as it was established in the same episode #17 would be far stronger without his rebellious personality (which had been quashed at the time) and it could be assumed the link between both #17s being in sync could lead to a power up.

Cell and Freeza being immortal in the afterlife when the opposite was stated for Vegeta in the Boo arc

This was also established in Freeza Arc filler that GT was likely drawing from here, and despite its link to it, the Kaioshinkai is separate from the macrocosm rather than being directly part of the afterlife. Moreover, this is only an inconsistency rather than a plot hole as Goku defeating Freeza and Cell or not would still have little bearing on his escape from Hell.

By comparison King Cold being far stronger in his "later forms" is at least explainable when Frost has the same set of forms as Freeza does and Trunks wouldn't have given him the time to transform when he clearly didn't with Cell.

This still doesn't account for Goku defeating Cold in his timeline too despite being far less straight to the point than Trunks, nor is there an explanation on why Cold would resort to stealing Trunks' sword when shocked at Freeza's death instead of transforming and beating him outright. This is a clear plot hole as both timelines in the Cell Arc cease to function if Trunks was as powerful as the arc's antagonist.

Gas Carcolh is a bit of an asspull but with Nail alone providing a several-fold boost for Piccolo and there being a hundred Namekians, plus Piccolo's insane gainz speed after fusing with Nail in the Boo arc (and Super displaying the U6 merged Namekians and the Namekian Savior as relevant to if not far stronger than any Boo arc top tiers), I can somewhat buy it.

Keep in mind Nail was a far superior case than the average Namekians though. Also, the problem is that this causes a plot hole within the Freeza Arc of the Namekians not fusing together in an attempt to stop Freeza if this were possible. This was already a questionable element in the Freeza Arc, but on its own it can at least be assumed the power of the remaining Namekians wouldn't be enough to stop Freeza. Both DBM and Super completely contradicting that retroactively damages the integrity of the Freeza Arc's plot. Moreover, bringing up Saonel and Pirina as an example of it being a believable contrivance doesn't work when the averaged inhabitants of U6 are stronomically superior to their U7 counterparts (eg. Cabba and Caulifla compared to any of the pre-SSJ Saiyans).

 

[Papasmurf]

You're right in that a plot hole started the arc's inciting incident, but the target is off there as the main plot hole is Trunks sensing #17's Ki to confirm his identity when that should obviously be impossible. #17 getting so strong though is less a plot hole and more of a notable contrivance as it was established in the same episode #17 would be far stronger without his rebellious personality (which had been quashed at the time) and it could be assumed the link between both #17s being in sync could lead to a power up.

No explanation was provided though, so the sin is equally as sinful as Shisami >= Piccolo despite him not having been noted to be training. Piccolo also seems like he barely powered up in Super compared to his post-Rosat self prior to his training for the U6 arc judging by base Gohan being above him, whereas Trunks got Toei haxes throughout the first two arcs.

This was also established in Freeza Arc filler that GT was likely drawing from here, and despite its link to it, the Kaioshinkai is separate from the macrocosm rather than being directly part of the afterlife. Moreover, this is only an inconsistency rather than a plot hole as Goku defeating Freeza and Cell or not would still have little bearing on his escape from Hell.

Galu was able to stay indefinitely in the Kaioshin-kai, meaning it's little different than other planets belonging to deities in the afterlife such as those of North Kaio and Beerus. And I have no clue how abiding by contradictory filler from the early Freeza arc is an excuse for blatantly ignoring the canon explanation. That's like if they went by the God of Planet Vegeta destroying it with the meteor in GT rather than Freeza doing the deed as he's been shown to in every medium after Dodoria's reveal.

This still doesn't account for Goku defeating Cold in his timeline too despite being far less straight to the point than Trunks, nor is there an explanation on why Cold would resort to stealing Trunks' sword when shocked at Freeza's death instead of transforming and beating him outright. This is a clear plot hole as both timelines in the Cell Arc cease to function if Trunks was as powerful as the arc's antagonist.

Galu advised Gohan to attack Boo while he was transforming from absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, so Galu could've just used a Shunkan Idou KHH as Cold was about to go into his 3rd form when he sensed that Cold's inner power far surpassed his own. It's bullshit but not moreso than shit that happens in other shonen all the time like Zabuza not being roflstomped by Shinobi War arc Kakashi or Crocodile's ridiculous prison power up.

Keep in mind Nail was a far superior case than the average Namekians though. Also, the problem is that this causes a plot hole within the Freeza Arc of the Namekians not fusing together in an attempt to stop Freeza if this were possible. This was already a questionable element in the Freeza Arc, but on its own it can at least be assumed the power of the remaining Namekians wouldn't be enough to stop Freeza. Both DBM and Super completely contradicting that retroactively damages the integrity of the Freeza Arc's plot. Moreover, bringing up Saonel and Pirina as an example of it being a believable contrivance doesn't work when the averaged inhabitants of U6 are stronomically superior to their U7 counterparts (eg. Cabba and Caulifla compared to any of the pre-SSJ Saiyans).

Moori confirmed that he hadn't been informed prior that Freeza was definitely attacking the people of his planet, he'd just heard a "rumor." Keep in mind that after the cataclysm there were only about 100 Namekians left, and they lived simple lives harvesting trees rather than engaging in advanced technological pursuits as they did prior to Molestation Master Guru and Kami's time. A lack of communication could be blamed for the deaths of the people on Namek in early Z, especially when Tsuno (the elder that Vegeta killed) seemed unaware that all the other villages were wiped out too.

Furthermore, we know for a fact that the U6 Saiyans are essentially just counterparts of the U7 Saiyans except in that they evolved their tails out of existence and stayed on Sadla. Whereas it appears for now that all Namekians originate from an alternate universe, and it's more than likely that the U6 Namekians just went to U6 and split up with the U7 Namekians. Which means they share a direct bunch of common ancestors, whereas the U6 Saiyans have split considerably from the U7 Saiyans because they were counterparts of each other rather than diasporas of the same people from the same universe. And the implied strength of the Namekian Savior in the Moro arc shows that all Namekians combining to form a stronger-than-NamekFreeza entity isn't farfetched.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm gonna say I like it. Pretty hit or miss in some aspects, but I like how it enhances the lore. Definitely better than DBS and GT as a sequel, I'd say. Love the Cooler and Broly special chapters, though the M10 rewrite creates a inconsistence by having Vegeta seeing Gohan and talking about his power before the 25th Budokai.

I really like most special chapters, even if they slow the pacing of the tournament. Very interesting what ifs, there's only a couple bad ones (Like the new Broly one, and the redundant Bojack kills Gohan one with shitty art).

Looking forward to see how it ends. Wonder who this XXI character is, and they're doing a pretty cool Goku vs O- WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS???

4th form Cold ~ Cell

He's actually only said to be comparable to the Androids. The other two transformations that make him comparable to Cell are said to have been unlocked by Ginyu, so he's not that strong... Not that it makes things any less contrived since Freeza is supposed to be the strongest.

Bra being near enough a Mary Sue

What makes you think that? She's certainly powerful, but she causes more problems than she solves. Vegetto is definitely a Gary-Stu though.

Talking about Bra, she totally throws a wrench in the power scale. Apparently her base is Perfect Cell level, but her SSJ forms are in the same league as Vegetto's? And Vegetto is Broly level, who in his special is shown blowing up the biggest blackhole in the Galaxy? That's gotta be a DBS level feat, isn't it?

DBM seems to go with a very nerfed Boo Saga where no one ever reached SSJ3 tier in base for some reason.

Galu advised Gohan to attack Boo while he was transforming from absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, so Galu could've just used a Shunkan Idou KHH as Cold was about to go into his 3rd form when he sensed that Cold's inner power far surpassed his own. It's bullshit but not moreso than shit that happens in other shonen all the time like Zabuza not being roflstomped by Shinobi War arc Kakashi or Crocodile's ridiculous prison power up.

There's a special chapter that shows it's exactly what happened. Cold transformed and gave Goku some trouble, but then he lost to everyone's combined beams. Question is, why not arrive transformed already? And the pink elephant in the room: How is Freeza the strongest in the universe? I can see Coola being omitted out of bias/jealousy, but Cold is right next to Freeza when he says he's #1.

Talking about specials, they recently did one about how Broly killed everyone too... And it's the most fanfic-y thing ever. I mean LOOK AT THIS:

Majin Boo absorbs everyone so he can fight Broly, but still can't beat him. The narrator them explains how powerful the biggest blackhole ever is as Boo sacrifices himself to throw Broly there, but Broly just powers up and flees. It's exactly as contrieved as the way I'm saying

DBM is the reason Broly wank exists, isn't it?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Just noticed something pretty neat. In the second round Nappa bullies Freeza and then gives up before he can hit him. Among the things he said is "You won't lay a hit in this entire tournament!" and it turns out to be true: Jeice and Nappa give up before the fight starts, and Freeza gets defeated after a mental fight with Goku. This is easily the most well thought Dragon Ball sequence since 1991.

Btw the writers apparently imagine Oozaru as a 2x multiplier because 10x makes Vegeta too strong

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I really like most special chapters, even if they slow the pacing of the tournament. Very interesting what ifs, there's only a couple bad ones (Like the new Broly one, and the redundant Bojack kills Gohan one with shitty art).

There are a few good special chapters, like the Tapion and Saiyan empire chapters (even though how the universe formed is 100% retarded with Bardock.) One of the Gast chapters had amazing art, but that's where the compliments end. Most of the timelines are just one event changing (which amounts to just the villains slaughtering the heroes in various shades of terrible art.) Many of the universes themselves are contrived, relying on shoddy logic to actually exist in the first place. The Bojack chapter is infamous for this.

He's actually only said to be comparable to the Androids. The other two transformations that make him comparable to Cell are said to have been unlocked by Ginyu, so he's not that strong... Not that it makes things any less contrived since Freeza is supposed to be the strongest.

If Cold's as strong as android 18 or android 17 when he first appeared, then that makes him ridiculously strong. When Cold appeared, he would literally have fodderized Trunks and Goku with his pinkie. That's how big the difference in power is between them. The fact that Cold in the mainline series never once even considered that is a massive contradiction to a series that prides itself on being the best continuation of DBZ.

What makes you think that? She's certainly powerful, but she causes more problems than she solves. Vegetto is definitely a Gary-Stu though.

Bra being considered a Mary Sue has been a boiling pot for a long time in the fandom. It started with Bra directly disobeying Vegito's orders and killing Zangya and Bra being stronger than Broly when she was born. By themselves these could be ignored, but it got worse due to Bra's arrogant and prideful attitude and what came next. Her deal with "Cold" and getting beaten to the point of death, only for her to be hiding a Senzu bean the entire time in her asscheeks is what caused it all to explode. Then you had her asspulling all these different inane techniques while having Goku and Vegeta basking in techniques even they don't know. Finally culminating in Majin Bra slaughtering the entire stand, the reveal that even as a child Bra hasn't been different (She actually killed Goten when she was a child.) The character assassination of Vegito by revealing that he actually promised to kill her all this time, which makes no sense with how they treated each other this entire time. Then there's the talk no jutsu everyone laughs at.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

DBM's biggest sin is definitely implying that the Cantina Band plays bad music. Like what?

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

DBS would never


They literally made a form called NormalSSJ btw

 

[Papasmurf]

Doesn't sound too different than using UI Sign to achieve "true" ultra instinct