EoZ Goku proves Gotenks is Gag

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta most likely surpassed him EoZ. But what evidence suggests Gohan > Vegeta in GT ever?

Nah not sure about EoZ. Maybe if Gohan slacked.

Absolutely nothing as far as I recall. Vegeta stomps Baby Gohan.

 

[SIAD]

Where is it implied Gohan > Vegeta in BoGT?

In episode 7 of DBGT when Pan commented that on the Planet where they live, the strongest is Goku, then Trunks and then Pan.

Trunks says that he is not the second most powerful, since there is Gohan, Papa and Piccolo.

Trunks mentioning Gohan before his own father makes me think that:

Goku > Gohan > Vegeta > Piccolo > Trunks in BoGT.

The members of Sigma Force Cannon saw through Gill the power that SSJ Goku had against Redjic and Luud and they all hoped to defeat him individually. But Goku Base in M2 had become so strong that in his own Base, he humiliated that entire team combined.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku > Gohan > Vegeta > Piccolo > Trunks in BoGT.

So Vegeta couldn’t catch Gohan in 14 years and now he instantly surpasses him a month later?

 

[SIAD]

So Vegeta couldn’t catch Gohan in 14 years and now he instantly surpasses him a month later?

Vegeta was close to Gohan in BoGT. The Arc Baby occurred 9 months after BoGT.

I'll tag you in 2 very good Power Levels lists.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So Vegeta couldn’t catch Gohan in 14 years and now he instantly surpasses him a month later?

That’s DBZ for you.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Vegeta was close to Gohan in BoGT. The Arc Baby occurred 9 months after BoGT.

This doesn’t match up with EoZ, Vegeta implies he could be competitive with Goku at the Tournament, which is most likely not possible if he’s below even Gohan.

That’s DBZ for you.

True but the evidence goes the other way.

 

[Goku9001]

So: Redjic > Goku Base (BoGT) = Vegeta Base (BoGT) = Oob (BoGT) >>> Ultimate Gohan?

I don't know. I don't remember much of GT but I don't really thinks it concerns Toriyama in regards to what his original message was.

I do recall people making the case that Rildo must have surpassed Buuhan so for Base Goku to perform as well as he did against Rildo a child-like body would naturally mean that Base Goku and Base Vegeta surpassed Ultimate Gohan.

 

[FeatsofPower]

TOEI made their own amendments and GT and anime Super follow TOEIs Goku had for sure

 

[Goku9001]

TOEI made their own amendments and GT and anime Super follow TOEIs Goku had for sure

What does this mean? I don't think the concept of Goku being the strongest stems from Toei. It always came from Toriyama. I don't think GT is even relevant when considering what Toriyama always intended for Goku whether it is Super or EoZ.

 

[SIAD]

TOEI made their own amendments and GT and anime Super follow TOEIs Goku had for sure

So, Kid Boo and Goku SSJ3 (Vs Kid Boo), are the most powerful characters of the moment? More powerful than Super Vegito?

In that case, Oob (Enraged against Goku) would be more powerful than Super Vegetto. Surely Goku Base (BoGT) would be more powerful than a hypothetical Vegetto SSJ2 (Boo)?

A while ago I started thinking that the greatest ki felt by Goku, before Super Baby Vegeta, must have been the Super Genkidama that killed Kid Boo. That Genkidama could be thousands of times more powerful than Kid Boo. Even Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo) would be complete fodder compared to Super Genkidama.

What do you think?

 

[FeatsofPower]

What does this mean? I don't think the concept of Goku being the strongest stems from Toei.

Toriyama intended for Gotenks and Gohan to be the strongest during the Kid Buu Saga.

TOEI on the other hand, amended this situation and made Goku and Vegeta surpass Gotenks and Gohan as mere Super Saiyans.

It always came from Toriyama. I don't think GT is even relevant when considering what Toriyama always intended for Goku whether it is Super or EoZ.

I'm speaking about how TOEI doesn't always agree with Toriyama. They make their own additions at times.

 

[FeatsofPower]

So, Kid Boo and Goku SSJ3 (Vs Kid Boo), are the most powerful characters of the moment? More powerful than Super Vegito?

Hmm... It does seem most likely.

Remember this.

Enraged Buuhan ~ Super Saiyan Vegetto.

And Kid Buu is on a whole different level than Enraged Buuhan. So you have to think about if Goku included Enraged Buuhan into the conversation, I see no reason why not.

Also, the Super anime makes it clear that Goku defeating Kid Buu made him the #1 in the universe. Also the way Goku speaks to Goten about Kid Buu makes it appear that him coming back would be a tremendous battle for him again.

A while ago I started thinking that the greatest ki felt by Goku, before Super Baby Vegeta, must have been the Super Genkidama that killed Kid Boo. That Genkidama could be thousands of times more powerful than Kid Boo. Even Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo) would be complete fodder compared to Super Genkidama.

What do you think?

I initially thought it had to be Super Vegetto, but now if GT uses the TOEI Hax, which it probably does, then I'm not sure how to go about things.

 

[Dagon]

A while ago I started thinking that the greatest ki felt by Goku, before Super Baby Vegeta, must have been the Super Genkidama that killed Kid Boo. That Genkidama could be thousands of times more powerful than Kid Boo. Even Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo) would be complete fodder compared to Super Genkidama.

What do you think?

Usually they're talking about ki from a person when making strength comparison statements.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Forget it, it’s GT.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo says that Goku hasn't been this way in a long time. The implication is that Gohan and Gotenks can't create that feeling but Uub's potential can. That's what's exciting about it. If Goku believed Uub couldn't surpass Gohan and Gotenks, then there would have been nothing left for Goku since what he wanted the most was a good fight, something Goku apparently hasn't had in a long time as per Piccolo. Kind of strange if Gohan and Gotenks could fight Goku whenever he wanted.

Because Goten/Trunks and Gohan aren't into fighting. He has found a kid who has the dream of a youngster and is excited by fighting him. It doesn't reflect on how he compares to Gohan. Much the same way, if Goku knows he can't never compete with Gohan, then there's no reason to be excited for a fight he knows Gohan's level exceeds his by leaps and bounds. With the way Goten was uninterested in fighting and baaed on Trunks' family being away from Goku's for 5 years, it seems Trunks and Goten doesn't train together nor practice fusing. So Goku isn't going to see excitement in that when he knows they haven't the heart to be fighting. Goku was already interested in the tournament in fighting Oob and he knew he had to fight in base for the no SSJ rule and because he expected Oob to be around his base... Gohan could clearly win the tournament since not even while transforming he can keep the ultimate state which resembles the base state and at the very least transcends their base states by leaps and bounds. The fact he didn't even compete shows his heart wasn't there anymore despite his strength. He's forced to horn his strength only in troublesome times. The fact that even Oob who was around ~ his base there was already eagering him shows it's not a matter of power comparison to Gohan and Gotenks. It's more like a matter of knowing the kid represents kid Boo in essence to an extent, being his good reincarnation and then he can have a full on match Vs a kind of version of the Boo who bested him all while relying on himself. Goku already anticipated a battle Vs Kid Boo in the future in spite of seeing Gohan, Super Boo and all those stronger versions of Boo... Kid Boo was already a Boo he'd like to have a rematch against. This may show Goku knows his limitations and that a similar level of his SSJ3 already excited him back then. It doesn't compare Gohan or Gotenks. They aren't in the picture. Either because Goku sees they aren't battle hungry and wants a youngster with the heart of being the strong all while symbolic representing his last enemy... or because Goku knows he'll never catch up to a Gotenks Gohan's level and is fine with it, being entertained with someone who'll give him a very entertaining match... Or a combination of both... It all works well without forcing Goku to be the strongest there.

 

[NotTheOnly1ne]

Gotenks and even Goten/Trunks themselves have been gag characters from the get go.