Every Single Power Level in the Z Manga

[stae]

dragon ball z power levels

Every single character in the z manga with their power levels and time stamps for the explanations. I am more than willing to debate, but it would be nice if you saw the explanation for any number you disagree with first.

DBZ MANGA COMPLETE POWER LEVELS

symbols:
( ! = listed in daizenshu )
( * = multipliers stated by daizenshuu )
( ? = estimate with supported evidence )
( ?? = broad estimate )
( < = less than )
( << = significantly less than )
( + = greater )
( ++ = significantly greater )
( ~ = roughly around )

SAIYAN SAGA: (00:15)==================

1 baby gohan (00:21)
5 farmer (00:23)
130 chichi (00:58)
139 roshi (00:24)
177 yamcha (00:25)
190 korrin (!) (00:59)
206 krillin (00:26)
220 kami (!) (01:00)
250 tien (00:26)
322 piccolo
329 piccolo
334 goku
408 piccolo (00:27)
416 goku (00:28)
416+ bubbles (?)
710 baby gohan (inside pod)
910 goku (kamehameha) (!)
924 goku (kamehameha)
1,000 mr popo (!)
1,200 raditz (00:29)
1,500 raditz (!)
1,307 baby gohan (rage) (00:30)
1,330 piccolo (special beam cannon)

VEGETA'S ARRIVAL: (00:49)=========

610 chaotzu (!) (01:01)
970 yajirobe (!) (01:02)
981 gohan (suppressed) (00:52)
1,030 mr popo (!) (01:03)
1,083 krillin (suppressed) (00:52)
1,200 saibamen (00:57)
1,220 piccolo (suppressed) (00:52)
1,400 gohan (?) (27:03)
1,480 yamcha (!) (01:04)
1,770 krillin (!) (01:05)
1,830 tien (!) (01:05)
2,800 rage gohan (01:06)
3,500 king kai (!) (01:07)
3,500 piccolo (!) (01:07)
4,000 nappa (!) (01:08)
5,000 goku (suppressed)
8,000+ goku (01:26)
16,000+ goku kaioken x2 (*) (01:29)
18,000 vegeta (01:33)
24,000+ goku kaioken x3 (*) (01:31)
14,000 gohan (great ape) (?) (01:39)
32,000+ goku kaioken x4 (*)
180,000 vegeta (great ape) (*) (01:57)

NAMEK SAGA: (02:12)==================

1~ ginyu (frog body) (?) (02:14)
5+ dende (?) (02:15)
1,000 namekians (suppressed) (02:48)
1,200~ frieza elite (02:42)
1,500 krillin/gohan (suppressed) (03:00)
1,770+ krillin (03:08)
1,770+ gohan (03:08)
3,000 namekians (02:50)
10,000+ krillin/gohan (ginyu squad's measurement) (03:16)
13,000 krillin (!) (03:22)
14,000 gohan (!) (03:23)
18,000+ cui (03:24)
<24,000 zarbon/dodoria
22,000 dodoria (!) (03:32)
23,000 zarbon (!) (03:33)
23,000~ krillin (fighting ginyu) (?) (05:06)
23,000 ginyu (goku's body) (04:44)
23,000~ gohan (fighting ginyu) (?) (05:06)
24,000 vegeta (03:27)
30,000 vegeta (post zenkai) (!) 03:39)
30,000+ zarbon (2nd form) (?) 03:44)
42,000 nail (03:55)
<13,000 guldo (?) (04:24)
45,000~ reccome (?) (04:02)
45,000~ burter (?) (04:15)
45,000~ jeice (?) (04:15)
45,000+ vegeta (initial zenkai) (?)
60,000 goku (ginyu estimate)
85,000 goku (ginyu max estimate)
90,000 goku (04:35)
120,000 ginyu (04:38)
180,000 goku kaioken x2 (04:41)

FRIEZA ARC: (05:39)==================

75,000 krillin (increasing potential) (!) (05:06)
150,000~ piccolo (?) (05:40)
200,000 gohan (increasing potential) (!) (05:08)
200,000~ frieza (suppressed) (?)
250,000 vegeta (post reccome zenkai/nap) (!) (07:00)
300,000 frieza (powered up vs vegeta) (?) (07:06)
400,000~ gohan (rage) (?) (08:12)
530,000 frieza (base form max) (06:13)
750,000~ frieza (2nd form suppressed) (?) (08:38)
1,000,000~ piccolo (nail fusion) (?) (08:43)
1,000,060~ frieza (2nd form) (07:45)
1,000,000~ gohan (full power rage) (?) (09:16)
1,000,000+ piccolo (weightless) (?) (08:47)
2,120,000 frieza (3rd form) (?) (08:50)
2,120,000+ vegeta (post krillin zenkai) (?) (09:30)
3,000,000 final form frieza (2.5%) (*) (09:44)
3,000,000 goku (post ginyu zenkai) (!) (09:40)
4,800,000 final form frieza (4%) (*) (09:52)
30,000,000 goku kaioken x10 (*) (09:53)
60,000,000 goku kaioken x20 (*) (09:55)
60,000,000 final form frieza (50%) (*) (09:56)
90,000,000 final form frieza (75%) (*)
120,000,000 final form frieza (!) (10:00)
150,000,000 super saiyan goku (!) (10:03)

TRUNKS' ARRIVAL: (10:09)==================

5 future trunks (suppressed)
8,000+ yamcha (??) (10:10)
8,000+ tien (??) (10:10)
1,000,000 king cold (?) (10:47)
2,000,000+ piccolo frieza arrival (?) (11:10)
2,000,000++ vegeta max pre-training (?) (11:26)
3,000,000 base goku (post 3 years) (?)
4,800,000~ mecha frieza (suppressed) (?)
120,000,000+ mecha frieza (100%) (frieza's assessment) (?) (10:40)
150,000,000 super saiyan goku (post yardrat) (?) (11:40)

ANDROID ARC: (12:00)===========================

500,000~ yamcha (post time skip) (??) (14:26)
1,000,000+ tien (post time skip) (??) (12:03)
1,000,000+ krillin (post time skip) (??) (14:14)
2,000,000~ gohan (?) (14:34)
<3,000,000 base gohan (future) (?)
3,000,000+ base trunks (?)
3,000,000+ base vegeta (?)
12,000,000~ base trunks (post HTC) (?)
12,000,000~ base vegeta (post HTC) (?)
50,000,000~ android 19 (??) (12:26)
50,000,000~ android 20 (??) (12:26)
50,000,000++ android 19 (goku energy absorbed) (?)
<150,000,000 ss gohan (?) (16:04)
150,000,000~ super saiyan goku (heart virus) (?) (12:30)
150,000,000~ piccolo (post training) (?) (14:45)
200,000,000~ super saiyan trunks (?) (15:26)
200,000,000~ super saiyan vegeta (?) (14:56)
200,000,000+ imperfect cell (?) (17:17)
300,000,000~ android 18 (?) (15:40)
300,000,000~ android 17 (?) (16:12)
300,000,000~ piccolo (kami fusion) (?) (16:54)
400,000,000~ imperfect cell (future) (?) (17:33)
400,000,000~ imperfect cell (humans absorbed) (?) (18:06)
400,000,000~ android 16 (?) (18:12)
500,000,000~ semi-perfect cell (?) (18:18)
600,000,000~ ss grade 2 trunks (?) (18:38)
600,000,000~ ss grade 2 vegeta (?) (19:14)

CELL SAGA: (19:03)=========================

15,000,000~ base trunks (post HTC) (?)
15,000,000~ base vegeta (post HTC) (?)
<30,000,000 goku (base) (?)
30,000,000 gohan (base) (?)
400,000,000~ tien (kikoho) (?)
750,000,000~ piccolo (post HTC) (?) (19:35)
750,000,000~ ss vegeta (post HTC) (?) (19:24)
750,000,000~ ss trunks (post HTC) (?)
750,000,000+ cell jr (?) (19:32)
<1,500,000,000 mssj goku (?) (19:05)
1,500,000,000 mssj gohan (?) (19:03)
1,500,000,000~ perfect cell (suppressed) (?) (19:09)
1,500,000,000+ perfect cell (?) (20:18)
3,000,000,000 ss2 gohan (?) (20:25)
3,000,000,000 super perfect cell (?) (20:21)
6,000,000,000 ss2 gohan (rage) (?) (20:28)

TOURNAMENT ARC: (21:33)======================

5~ bibbidi (?)
5+ dende (?)
5+ sharpner (?)
5+ jewel (?)
5+ killa (?)
5+ spopovitch (?)
5+ punta (?)
5+ hercules (?) (21:36)
5+ videl (?) (21:29)
5++ videl (ki training) (?)
5+++ spopovitch (maijin) (?) (22:00)
5+++ yamu (maijin) (?) (22:26)
3,500 south kai (!) (22:30)
18,000~ pui pui (??) (22:35)
3,000,000+ krillin (??) (23:46)
6,000,000~ base goten (??)
6,000,000~ base kid trunks (??)
30,000,000~ kibito (?) (27:35)
30,000,000 base gohan (?)
60,000,000 base goku (*)
60,000,000 base vegeta (maijin) (*)
300,000,000~ android 18 (?)
300,000,000~ super saiyan goten (??) (23:54)
300,000,000~ super saiyan kid trunks (??) (23:54)
750,000,000+ piccolo (??) (24:35)
<800,000,000 yakkon (24:48)
1,000,000,000~ supreme kai shin (??) (27:50)
1,500,000,000 ss1 adult gohan (?)
3,000,000,000 ss2 adult gohan (?) (25:53)
3,000,000,000 ss goku (24:54)
3,000,000,000 ss vegeta (maijin) (27:32)
4,000,000,000~ dabura (?) (28:34)
<6,000,000,000 ss2 vegeta (*)
6,000,000,000 s2 goku (*) (25:04)
6,000,000,000 ss2 vegeta (maijin) (*) (25:05)
6,000,000,000+ ss2 rage gohan (hypothetical) (*) (26:26)

BUU SAGA: (28:56)===============================

3,000,000~ tien (?) (28:56)
12,000,000~ base goten (post HTC) (??)
12,000,000~ base kid trunks (post HTC) (??)
600,000,000~ super saiyan goten (post HTC) (??) (29:00)
600,000,000~ super saiyan kid trunks (post HTC) (??) (29:00)
1,000,000,000~ elder kai (?) (30:16)
1,000,000,000~ grand supreme kai (?) (30:16)
1,000,000,000~ south supreme kai (?) (30:16)
3,000,000,000~ gohan (z-sword) (?) (29:45)
4,000,000,000+ base gotenks (??) (31:20)
4,500,000,000~ maijin buu (suppressed) (?)
6,000,000,000+ mr buu (?) (34:55)
6,000,000,000+ maijin buu (?) (30:35)
6,000,000,000+ super buu (suppressed) (?)
6,000,000,000+ base gotenks (post ROSAT) (??) (31:45)
6,000,000,000+ kibito kai (??) (32:24)
18,000,000,000~ ss3 goku (alive) (??) (37:01)
18,000,000,000~ evil buu (??) (34:41)
18,000,000,000~ kid buu (??) (34:41)
24,000,000,000+ ss3 goku (dead) (*) (30:29)
50,000,000,000~ base vegito (??) (33:40)
200,000,000,000+ ss gotenks (??) (32:20)
300,000,000,000+ ss1 gotenks (post ROSAT) (??) (32:20)
300,000,000,000+ super buu (suppressed) (??)
1,600,000,000,000~ super buu (??) (32:51)
1,600,750,000,000~ super buu (piccolo absorbed) (??)
2,400,000,000,000~ ss3 gotenks (?) (32:41)
2,400,000,000,000+ mystic gohan (?) (33:00)
4,000,000,000,000~ buutenks (gotenks absorbed) (??) (32:22)
4,000,000,000,000+ buuhan (gohan absorbed) (??) (32:22)
5,000,000,000,000~ ss vegito (??) (33:34)

THE TIER LIST =========(37:30)

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Just got done with the video. Dividing each saga into a spoiler tag so it’ll be easier to scroll.

Spoiler: Saiyan Saga

Keep in mind Nappa only said Raditz rivaled a Saibaman, not equaled it. I think 1,200ish is still the most appropriate placement though since as you said, 1,300ish powers seriously injured and almost killed him.
Vegeta credited Nappa’s poor perfomance to his nervousness against Goku, and after he cooled his head Goku was even entertained by the fight. I think either Nappa is above 4,000 or he got one of those mid fight improvements Saiyans always get in Super.
Shouldn’t Vegeta be listed as <<180,000 given the point made in the video? Gohan might be below 9,000 too given how injured he was, but who knows.

Spoiler: Freeza Saga

Dende’s power less is a tricky one. Dende had his potential unlocked by Guru, so I doubt he really has less Ki than Mr Satan. Battle power and Ki are always treated as sort of the same thing, but I think Goku’s main worry was that Dende isn’t really a fighter, so even if their fusion has a higher Power Level he wouldn’t be able to use that power properly.
Guru’s line about Piccolo and Kami is pretty weird. The split obviously wasn’t even; Old Kami finger-clicked Goku fresh from killing Young Piccolo Daimao. The split was never even, so the fusion might not be either. I’ve always used the 2x boost in power levels for simplicity’s sake, but it could be anything. Btw, the Legend of the Manga guidebook does say Piccolo merging with Nail multiplied his power by 5x, which goes in hand with how the term Nail used is often used in Japanese for multiple, but not so large amounts.
That’s an interesting point about Freeza not being at 530k vs Vegeta. Vegeta wasn’t really impressed by Freeza’s power like Kuririn and Gohan were, but mistaking it for a transformation does make it sound like Freeza powered up.
When Freeza transformed, he said his power should currently be sitting at the 1 million range. So 1,000,000+ should be the power level for Initial 2nd form Freeza, not FP 2nd form Freeza, who should be more in the 1.5 million range or so.
Not sure about the Daizenshu’s accuracy about Freeza’s 50% and 100% power. He stopped Goku’s Kamehameha with one hand, so I wouldn’t call that even. What I would call even is SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza’s fight, specially their beam struggle.

Spoiler: Cell Saga

Yamcha and Tien never even got to see Vegeta fighting, so their reactions aren’t really relevant. They were also somewhat informed about the events on Namek and should know Vegeta had powered up too.
Keep in mind Trunks dared Freeza and Cold to use full power on him, so he’s comfortably above them. Freeza might not be powerful enough to beat a SSJ on his own yet, but that’s why he brought his dad. Trunks is stronger than Goku was on Namek, and Goku returning from Yardrat clearly impressed Trunks and gave him hope. Goku might not have trained a lot, but recovering from his fight with Freeza should power him up a good deal.
Dragon Books say the androids in general are stronger than Freeza, so 19 and 20 should be above Freeza. Gero saying 19 multiplied his power is a Vizism btw, the original line just says he’s a lot stronger.
Daizenshuu 7 says barriers need to be twice as strong to nullify attacks. Assuming that’s also how it works for hand to hand fights (as it probably does), each time Cell tanks someone means he at least doubled his power. Overall, Cell Games Goku should be 4-5x stronger than Super Vegeta, since the 50% he showed at Karin’s place surpassed Suppressed Cell and Ultra Trunks.
I think Piccolo being at Super Vegeta’s level is a better placement. I mean sure, he was stronger before, but Vegeta had a sparring partner and unlocked a form above normal SSJ. The scan you show on the screen has Piccolo flat out tell Goku he can’t do anything to Cell.
Gohan didn’t really beat Cell with only half his power. Cell was about to steamroll this <50% Gohan until he went all out and turned the tables.

Spoiler: Boo Saga

I think it’s possible to make a point towards Pui Pui and Yakon being above Kaioshin. Babidi did recruit them to take care of Shin and whoever he could recruit, after all. Shin himself is also completely flabbergasted at how easily Vegeta beats Pui Pui.



There really isn’t any evidence for 18 being stronger than Goten and Trunks. They were fending her off in base form, and while she didn’t seem to be struggling she did want to finish the fight quickly to get her money. Goten and Trunks also showed power comparable to Gohan and Vegeta when sparring, and Daizenshuu 2 even says Goten and Gohan are equals.

In the Anime Dabra says he’s above 4,000 Kilis, so he might be above that.

I can see Gohan not being much weaker than his calm CG self if at all, but stronger? Without a single day of training? Nah. Sure, he’s grown up, but the first thing Vegeta says when he sees him is that he’s rusty. You can do a rough estimative of how rage boosts work (Even Baby Gohan got something close to 2x when he went from 710 to 1,307), but ultimately these depend on emotions, and emotions are unquantifiable.
Majin Boo should probably be closer to 24,000 Kili than 6,000 Kili. Besides fighting Goku fairly well (granted Goku was holding back, but so was Boo), the narrator says Boo split his power when Grey Boo was created. So Majin Boo > Grey Boo > 50% of Majin Boo > Good Boo > SSJ2s.
Back on Goten and Trunks, I think it’s clear the reason the Cell Jrs had the upperhand was their numbers. They always have that mischievous grin, so it doesn’t mean much. I’d say Cell Jr level is the roof for SSJ Goten and Trunks.
I think Z Sword Gohan could be highballed to 2-4x Base Goku. When Shin says Gohan can beat Boo, Goku is more like “Eh idk tbh” than “Nah he can’t”, like it would be a close fight.

This is more of a theory, but when Old Kaioshin introduces the Potara he says Shin’s cluelessness is the reason he’s so weak. Makes me think the average Kaioshin might have been around Kibitoshin’s power level. This woud also place Kibitoshin below SSJ2 Gohan for failing to pull the Z Sword. I don’t see any reason for Old Kai to be above Base Goku when he’s clearly just an old fart of a Kaioshin.
I agree with Gotenks’ placement. Lots of people are unwilling to place SSJ Gotenks above SSJ3 Goku by such a degree and either lowball Base Gotenks or say his SSJ multiplier is smaller, but I think this is the proper way to go. Base Gotenks surviving Boo is a bit odd, Boo should easily be capable of killing him if he wanted, and he definitely would want to kill his annoying ass. Most of the time when someone survives a fight it’s more out of luck than actual power. Not sure what to make of it. The Daizenshuu 7 entry is equally as confusing - who are the others in “Vegeta and the others”? Goku? Gohan? Definitely not Piccolo or the SSJ Kids, I can tell you that much.

This is more of a highball, but Vegetto could easily be above Gohan-Boo even in base. He’s suggested to be the perfect match for a fusion, which would make him stronger than a fusion between Goku and Gohan, and Old Kai said that would be plenty to beta Gotenks-Boo. Legend of the Manga also flat out says Vegetto > Goku and Gohan fusion. SSJ2 Gohan didn’t have any lightning while SSJ Majin Vegeta did, so I wouldn’t say Vegetto was a SSJ2 here.



I don’t think it’s really said anywhere that Goku could only use all of his SSJ3 power when dead, only that he couldn’t maintain it. We never even see SSJ3 Goku go all out while dead!

 

[stae]

sorry to get at this late, this post looked especially dead so i didnt really check.

anyways,

When i update the list, ill definitely change nappa and frieza's second form. Those are solid points and they are going in the first revision for sure.

goku vs frieza i wouldnt call very even. goku was still getting used to his power and easing into it. the reason i say the fight isnt even is mainly their beam clash. goku's kamehameha is assumably 2x roughly based on the beginning, so a ss KHH would be a 300 mil attack. frieza equaled that level with his own ki technique, but side stepped it, then hit goku with it directly. goku then proceeds to float back up from the water generally unbothered (which mirrors imp cell vs piccolo very well).

for androids 19-20, id have to look into that but i didnt know about the vizism. could i get the scan on the frieza statement? thanks

i do agree grade 2 vegeta is below half of goku, but 4-5x seems a bit much, no?

piccolo has consistently shown massive gains from his respective arcs, so i wouldnt hold it against him that he powered up a ton. sure, piccolo cudnt do anything to cell, but vegeta couldnt either. im mostly basing the piccolo placement based off his performance vs the cell juniors and trunk's suprise to goku saying piccolo was useless. this makes me think piccolo at least > grade 2 trunks.

cell was gonna win vs half of gohan, but they did clash for a good bit, so i wouldnt say steamroll. but yes, gohan was going to lose before he got a bit of a boost.

nobody can sense how strong the maijin are, so i think shin was just associating puipui with the likes of dabura, who he knows for sure is strong. shin should be decently above base vegeta anyway.

gohan does a good deal of training prior to the tournament. this is the gohan goku says would be stronger than him, not the beginning of the arc.

as for buu, i think buu's power is based on his form. so buu mightve had the ki reserves of super in maijin, but he only used ss2+ tier of power while in his fat state. both maijin and mr buu are in this ss2+ tier, while super buu with supposedly the same components as maijin buu. is massively stronger. vegeta also makes a comment on how good buu might be able to form another kid buu which also adds to the idea fat buu didnt deduct 50% of his power when making evil buu. even if it was a split. Vegeta also makes a statement "he(goku) was fighting this, this whole time?" in reference to kid buu, so that means he wasnt expecting that level of power. vegeta has fought a supposed 100% maijin buu before. so this means kid buu>maijin buu. i do not think maijin buu and good buu are different power levels or people.

cell jr ceiling for goten and trunks we agree on, but vegeta says trunks = cg trunks so this further cements that idea. however, dbs occurs awhile after z so the kids assumably get stronger, and they undergo htc training after the tournament they fight 18. theres is a good amount of room between 18 and cg trunks however, so the kids can go above 18 sure.

thats a good point on how goku did somewhat consider gohan's ability to beat buu, but i think 4x stronger than goku is too much. goku seemed to imply ss3 was more than enough to beat buu so gohan at 4x stronger than goku(=ss3 goku) would for sure be enough to overkill buu and goku wouldnt hesitate to say gohan could contend. thats a good point tho, i will consider raising gohan.

calling shin negligent isnt really grounds to give other kai kibitoshin levels of power tho. doesnt mean they cant be that strong, but i dont think that should be the reason.

as for gotenks, i put base gotenks < ss2 vegeta < post training base gotenks. ur right, him surviving buu was more a gag. so that bit makes him out around vegeta lvl, and coupled with the daizenshuu, gotenks being weaker than vegeta (in base) and stronger after makes sense. gotenks also believes his base to be = to buu, while previously he thought his pre training ss would win, so nothing conflicts with base gotenks < vegeta <base gotenks post htc < ss gotenks < ss gotenks post htc

i still believe vegito is ss2, due to the fact ss2 wasnt a name till the daizenshuu, so every case of gohan going ss2, gohan himself simply calls it "super saiyan". as for how strong vegeto is, we just know base>ss3 goku. base vegito did better than blue in dbs broly so theres a decent case that maybe base is wayyy above buu, who knows. at the same time, theres also the case to be made that goku and vegeta got astronomically stronger in super so perhaps fusion only overtakes ss3 multiplier then?

otherwise, anything i didnt mention, i mostly just agree with. thanks for the input!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

goku vs frieza i wouldnt call very even. goku was still getting used to his power and easing into it. the reason i say the fight isnt even is mainly their beam clash. goku's kamehameha is assumably 2x roughly based on the beginning, so a ss KHH would be a 300 mil attack. frieza equaled that level with his own ki technique, but side stepped it, then hit goku with it directly. goku then proceeds to float back up from the water generally unbothered (which mirrors imp cell vs piccolo very well).

I can see a point for Goku not being used to SSJ's power yet and thus not going all out. That's exactly what happened with SSJG after all.

He did hold Freeza in a high regard though, even inviting him for a rematch as long as he just polishes his skill and gets better tricks. I think their final exchange before Freeza pulled the Kienzans is a good representation of how they compare to each other. Goku has a bit of a lead, but Freeza can fight back as as soon as Goku lands a fatal blow he says Freeza's past his peak and calls it quits.

Chapter 326 (DBZ 132), P4.1-5
Context: after Goku dodges his homing blast
Freeza: “An afterimage, huh?...You’re pretty good, aint’cha?...”
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.”
Freeza: “Yo-you’re calling my technique worthless?...Well then, how about two of them?!”

for androids 19-20, id have to look into that but i didnt know about the vizism. could i get the scan on the frieza statement? thanks

This is 20 says in the original:

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P14.6
Context: after No.19 absorbs Goku’s attack
No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!”

And this is the Dragon Book entry:

Spoiler

I think 19 and 20 are somewhat above Mecha Freeza, and although they power up considerably from absorptions it doesn't help them surpass anyone else.

i do agree grade 2 vegeta is below half of goku, but 4-5x seems a bit much, no?

Well if Vegeta is half as strong as Cell to get his kick tanked like that, and SSJ Goku at 50% at least as strong as Cell, then Goku ends up multiple times stronger.

piccolo has consistently shown massive gains from his respective arcs, so i wouldnt hold it against him that he powered up a ton. sure, piccolo cudnt do anything to cell, but vegeta couldnt either. im mostly basing the piccolo placement based off his performance vs the cell juniors and trunk's suprise to goku saying piccolo was useless. this makes me think piccolo at least > grade 2 trunks.

I agree. I just tend to lowball Piccolo since I have him comparable, but he could really be anywhere as long as he's more than a couple steps behind Vegeta and Trunks in the Cell Games.

cell was gonna win vs half of gohan, but they did clash for a good bit, so i wouldnt say steamroll. but yes, gohan was going to lose before he got a bit of a boost.

Dunno. I mean, compare their faces during the struggle:

Spoiler

Gohan is definitely putting up his best, but Cell? He's not even trying. Piccolo also makes it clear that Gohan is weaker and being overpowered. I think Cell is well over half of Gohan's power, but still much weaker since he's as strong as Dabra at best.

nobody can sense how strong the maijin are, so i think shin was just associating puipui with the likes of dabura, who he knows for sure is strong. shin should be decently above base vegeta anyway.

Well Kaioshin does know Yakon, so I think he at least knew about his power. Pui Pui is a bit more tricky, but Babidi does know how strong his minions are thanks to the Kili Meter, and they were supposed to beat the Saiyans and Kaioshin.

gohan does a good deal of training prior to the tournament. this is the gohan goku says would be stronger than him, not the beginning of the arc.

I can see that. Goku and Vegeta do say he's much weaker, but they could just be talking about how he can't use his highest power anymore. There's no point in Base Gohan having powered up since the Cell Games when his SSJ2 is still fodder, after all.

as for buu, i think buu's power is based on his form. so buu mightve had the ki reserves of super in maijin, but he only used ss2+ tier of power while in his fat state. both maijin and mr buu are in this ss2+ tier, while super buu with supposedly the same components as maijin buu. is massively stronger. vegeta also makes a comment on how good buu might be able to form another kid buu which also adds to the idea fat buu didnt deduct 50% of his power when making evil buu. even if it was a split. Vegeta also makes a statement "he(goku) was fighting this, this whole time?" in reference to kid buu, so that means he wasnt expecting that level of power. vegeta has fought a supposed 100% maijin buu before. so this means kid buu>maijin buu. i do not think maijin buu and good buu are different power levels or people.

I agree. Only difference is that I'd have Majin Boo on the lower end of SSJ3 tier instead of high SSJ2. Both Piccolo and the narrator says his power was split, and it doesn't look like his power shoot up right before it. Vegeta's line is definitely suggesting Kid Boo is much stronger than Majin Boo, but I always thought he felt that because he no longer had his Majin durability.

cell jr ceiling for goten and trunks we agree on, but vegeta says trunks = cg trunks so this further cements that idea. however, dbs occurs awhile after z so the kids assumably get stronger, and they undergo htc training after the tournament they fight 18. theres is a good amount of room between 18 and cg trunks however, so the kids can go above 18 sure.

When does Vegeta say Kid Trunks = CG Trunks?

thats a good point on how goku did somewhat consider gohan's ability to beat buu, but i think 4x stronger than goku is too much. goku seemed to imply ss3 was more than enough to beat buu so gohan at 4x stronger than goku(=ss3 goku) would for sure be enough to overkill buu and goku wouldnt hesitate to say gohan could contend. thats a good point tho, i will consider raising gohan.

Well I said 4x because I think Majin Boo isn't far from SSJ3 Goku. I think a better way to word it is that he should be around 1% of Boo's power in base (Since SSJ2 is 100x base), while Goku is less than that.

calling shin negligent isnt really grounds to give other kai kibitoshin levels of power tho. doesnt mean they cant be that strong, but i dont think that should be the reason.

Shin is negligent when it comes to knowing things that could make him stronger.

as for gotenks, i put base gotenks < ss2 vegeta < post training base gotenks. ur right, him surviving buu was more a gag. so that bit makes him out around vegeta lvl, and coupled with the daizenshuu, gotenks being weaker than vegeta (in base) and stronger after makes sense. gotenks also believes his base to be = to buu, while previously he thought his pre training ss would win, so nothing conflicts with base gotenks < vegeta <base gotenks post htc < ss gotenks < ss gotenks post htc

Base Gotenks post HTC should be stronger than SSJ Gotenks pre HTC. They already knew Super Boo was much stronger than Fat Boo and SSJ Gotenks, only not by how much. It's like how everyone knew Cell powered up when he became Perfect, but nobody realized he was stronger than Super Vegeta until they actually fought.