Fight Comparison

[p123]

That's possible too, but still, the speed, the movements, 19 isn't getting crushed by every single attack. I can't advocate for a much larger gap than 80%. There just isn't any kind of logic there. It damn sure isn't a multi fold gap.

Which puts the kibosh on 19/20 being complete weaklings and their absorption power defining them. They powered up, but not drastically.

 

[Pyro]

That's possible too, but still, the speed, the movements, 19 isn't getting crushed by every single attack. I can't advocate for a much larger gap than 80%. There just isn't any kind of logic there. It damn sure isn't a multi fold gap.

Which puts the kibosh on 19/20 being complete weaklings and their absorption power defining them. They powered up, but not drastically.

However, #19 was stated to have powered up massively from the Kamehameha, and then he continued to absorb some of Goku's power until Vegeta showed up.

 

[p123]

Where did I state he did not power up massively? 1.25x is a massive power up, remember how freaked out everyone got over Freeza's power ups?

Why are our minds turning to mush over these two? Whenever dealing with 19 and 20 it's like logic is thrown out the window.

19 is inferior to Goku, but it isn't by extreme measures.

Sick Goku 100
19 Post 93.75
20 85
Sick Goku 82.5
19 Pre 75

What's so wrong with these numbers? Let's not forget Yamcha is considered to be a good power source here.

 

[SSJ2]

How strong do you have Yamcha on that scale?

 

[p123]

Who cares? .5 maybe or something?

 

[Pyro]

Where did I state he did not power up massively? 1.25x is a massive power up, remember how freaked out everyone got over Freeza's power ups?

Why are our minds turning to mush over these two? Whenever dealing with 19 and 20 it's like logic is thrown out the window.

19 is inferior to Goku, but it isn't by extreme measures.

Sick Goku 100
19 Post 93.75
20 85
Sick Goku 82.5
19 Pre 75

What's so wrong with these numbers? Let's not forget Yamcha is considered to be a good power source here.

Well, then the problem becomes how strong do we put sick Goku? If he's already stronger than Yardrat Goku, who's stronger than initial Trunks, then how was Piccolo so uncertain about the androids? Surely by absorbing a bunch of Goku's power, that would've put 19 ahead by so much that he could stomp the hell outta Trunks.

 

[p123]

Why is beating Trunks some sort of baseline? Beating Yardrat Goku badly is the baseline. Yardrat Goku gives Trunks only a little hope. Trunks defines the androids as unbeatable monsters beyond Goku's comprehension. Someone that is 1.25x Yardrat Goku is definitely in the questionable range.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

You're a nobody.

But so are you

 

[p123]

I'm actually the God King round here, bend that knee bitch.

 

[ahill1]

Well, I don't see if moving the head and seeing the opponent means much, honestly. Gohan also did this to 2nd form Freeza:

There's not much difference from what Gohan did to what #19 did.

 

[p123]

Who's to say that gap isn't similar?

 

[ahill1]

Eh, Gohan was still below 500k, while Freeza 2nd form was 1,000,000+.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan vs Recoome has it too:

Seeing an opponent and not being able to react doesn't mean much, me thinks.

 

[p123]

Fair enough. Good research. I still don't see anything in that fight that suggests less than 75%.

 

[ahill1]

Now that I'm rereading Gohan vs Recoome, it seems somewhat comparable with less than half old Piccolo vs Goku post 22nd Budokai.

Why do you think Goku vs 19 is comparable to Goku Kkx3 vs Vegeta, P?

 

[p123]

I don't think it is. I think KKx3 Goku vs Vegeta is at a larger gap than 19 vs Goku.

 

[ahill1]

Why?

 

[p123]

Overall speed. Goku is all over Vegeta, Vegeta is left punching the air on a couple of occasions and he looks like pure shit. Damage plays a huge part too, androids not taking damage the same way changes things.

I think the real question is, why not? Unless you have an agenda, it's pretty clear to see who is getting beat down worse.

 

[ahill1]

Goku seems to be stomping #19 too.

 

[Pyro]

Vegeta is mostly unable to keep up with Goku. It's only when he's put at a large distance that he's able to mount an offense, but even that is quickly dismissed and he's owned again. He's just about out of his mind after Goku's done facefucking him.

Goku vs. #19 is very similar with Goku disappearing and reappearing behind #19. He outright stops a charging #19 with one hand, albeit with noticeable effort. #19 is getting demolished easily; he gets back up after the assault simply because he doesn't feel pain.

I mean, they could very well be similar gaps, but one could just as easily be a larger gap and it wouldn't contradict anything because both opponents were owned with incredible lack of effort.

Huh, I wonder about the gap between Vegeta and #19 now. It's gotta be a lot considering Vegeta's energy loss, but still...

Rereading the #19 fight, why the fuck was Gero so surprised after Goku's first attack? It was a fucking elbow that knocked clown boy half a mile away. Was Gero assuming #19 was already strong enough to own Super Saiyan Goku? I mean, it makes sense with what he says about Goku not being a threat even after transforming, but I always chalked that up to him hoping for some degree of absorption (which he hints at later when he says #19 would die before stealing any power). All throughout the fight, he's looking shocked or making concerned comments about his robotic slave being beaten so badly. It makes me really question how valid his power comments truly are now honestly. He initially says #19 is capable of beating Goku, then later on says Goku's power greatly exceeds his data...like, what the fuck, could you not make contradictory statements, bro? I guess it could be "standing ki vs. fighting ki" but even then, to make such a giant miscalculation is kind of baffling.