FP Mecha Freeza vs Super Saiyan Trunks

[p123]

Well, considering that Gohan knocked out Trunks and said no use in him dying, it seems pretty clear that this was going to be a real battle.

I think we can put the Androids safely at 80% of Gohan to make this a reality. That's probably right in the sweet spot where he can win, but also where he can lose. It could go either way and factor in their infinite energy and man, that's a 50/50 shot.

I don't think Trunks thinks the androids got any stronger and I think he is a solid chunk superior to Gohan as well.

I just can't work out in my mind how their discussions would go comparing the Androids and Freeza.

 

[ahill1]

I used to have < 1/2 #17 at 88% of 1 arm SSJ Gohan, but it might sound too much. I think 80~83% sounds good. So is 1 arm Gohan at like 50% of #17?

 

[p123]

80-83% sounds good. 83% might be that extra that pushes it over the edge, two on one is a very delicate balance. We have a few examples to go by.

1) Dodoria and Zarbon can definitely take out Vegeta.
2) Vegeta, Krillen, Gohan can take out a Transformed Freeza (?)
3) Goku and Vegeta can take out Fat Buu ( Power Up 1 )


I think of Dodoria as somewhere around 80-83% of Vegeta, Zarbon as 87-90% of Vegeta.

And Goku and Vegeta definitely taking out Fat Buu is 85% or so for each of them. I could be off.

So I think Androids at 80% of Gohan makes it a 50/50 battle.

Yea I would generally go with something like this....


Future 17 100
Ssj Trunks 55
Ssj Gohan 50
Future 17 (Less than Half) 40

That's generally a really good standard to go by. If you have to bump 17 down to 35% instead to make it all fit, by all means. But that's a good baseline right there.

 

[ahill1]

Agreed. Also one of the reasons having present androids = future androids would be really tough, at least numerically.

Post Yardrat Goku would be already 60%> of future androids, which might tight things a little even going with present >> future.

 

[p123]

Yea from a numerical standpoint for spacing issues, we want to make the Trunks Saga powers as powerful as possible compared to Namek and then the Androids Saga as close as possible compared to the Trunks Saga. I can't help but this how important this part of the series is for power levels. It's huge.

Freeza Saga/Trunks Saga/Androids Saga/Future Saga. These sagas are all intertwined deeply and it is not easy to find how to go about things properly.

And yes Yardrat is going to get up there very quickly. 65% is probably the lowest you can have him. We are already at 65% and we have tons of more characters to go. It is very difficult.

Why don't you address each Super Saiyan character by saga individually and see how that turns out first.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Trunks is at the very least 2x higher. I prefer him to be well above 5x or so higher though.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Trunks is at the very least 2x higher. I prefer him to be well above 5x or so higher though.

5x?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Trunks is at the very least 2x higher. I prefer him to be well above 5x or so higher though.

5x?

You don't like that?

How about 10x? To be honest I think I'd like that even more, but I didn't want to get over-excited.

 

[SSJ2]

Trunks: 220
One Gohan: 200
40% 17: 170
Namek Goku: 150
Two Gohan: 135-140
Mecha Freeza: 160

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Trunks is at the very least 2x higher. I prefer him to be well above 5x or so higher though.

5x?

You don't like that?

How about 10x? To be honest I think I'd like that even more, but I didn't want to get over-excited.

Since Mecha Freeza doesn't know how strong he is, for all we know he could be as weak as Second Form Freeza. :bitch

 

[Fantastische Hure]

5x?

You don't like that?

How about 10x? To be honest I think I'd like that even more, but I didn't want to get over-excited.

Since Mecha Freeza doesn't know how strong he is, for all we know he could be as weak as Second Form Freeza. :bitch

I think Mecha-Freeza is at-least higher than 100% Freeza and Trunks at the very least is 2x higher than that, but more like 4 or 5x though. Preferably 10x or more like I said.

 

[p123]

Troll somewhere else please.

Overall, I think the questions you need answered is, did Trunks consider FP Freeza an instant win, either way, he has no respect for Freeza's power in the slightest, whether he has help or not.

Question #2 becomes, how does Less than Half 17 compare with Mecha Freeza. That really gives us our answer.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't think < 50% 17 needs to be that far ahead of Freeza. Trunks was battling the Androids at their full power presumably, so Freeza and Cold would be pure trash after taking on both the Future Androids.

 

[p123]

Agreed. Hell, they don't even have to be stronger than Freeza either. It's totally plausible that their suppressed powers are weaker than Freeza and after fighting them the last time did he become aware of how powerful they were. Just for narrative's sake, I like to think of Gohan talking about how the Future Androids are even stronger than Freeza. We know Gohan never got to tell Trunks that they were suppressed as well, but generally common Dragonball theme is new villain emerges superior to last and THAT WASNT EVEN HIS FINAL FORM! And so on.

It also fits that Gohan could tell Trunks a story about how the Future Androids were stronger than Freeza, then Trunks years later thinks he can defeat both Androids at the same time, of course he would think Freeza is garbage with this line of thought. I think it all fits in rather nicely.

 

[ahill1]

But overall, I like to have less than half 17 ahead of Mecha Freeza. Like p said, the "wow, this new villain is even stronger than the last one... and WTF, that wasn't even his full power..." is a common "theme" on DB. I have a feeling Gohan already considers the androids to be on a different level even before knowing they weren't at full power (of course, as he just died afterwards ).

Like already said, Freeza is a nowhere to Trunks. I can't seem him treating even less than half #17 with this level of treatment, considering even someone of his level (future Gohan) didn't seem to make low case of him.

 

[p123]

Well not quite ahill. Remember, Gohan and Trunks both thought they could beat both androids, at the same time. So fighting Freeza, who is even lower or equal to the Androids by himself more or less would be a joke. What makes the Androids difficult is that there are two of them.

So if Trunks, hell, if Gohan thinks he can beat two Androids at that level and then Trunks becomes stronger and Freeza is weaker than that level, it's no wonder why Trunks treats Freeza like absolute garbage.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

At-least 50x gap.

 

[ahill1]

Well not quite ahill. Remember, Gohan and Trunks both thought they could beat both androids, at the same time. So fighting Freeza, who is even lower or equal to the Androids by himself more or less would be a joke. What makes the Androids difficult is that there are two of them.

So if Trunks, hell, if Gohan thinks he can beat two Androids at that level and then Trunks becomes stronger and Freeza is weaker than that level, it's no wonder why Trunks treats Freeza like absolute garbage.

But like you said earlier, Gohan doesn't seem to be overflowing confidence. He still knocks Trunks out, saying if he dies Trunks will be the last warrior left. Besides, as far as the manga goes, the androids seemed to be fighting individually against Gohan, considering #17 is surprised Gohan survived and tells him he didn't even use 50% power before, without including #18 into it. So if Gohan has the power to take #17 out pretty quickly (like Trunks did to Freeza), then #18 would also be a piece of cake.

King Cold was also there supporting Freeza and Trunks called both of them to the fight, so I don't see it much different from Gohan's situation there other than infinite stamina of course.

 

[p123]

No, Gohan isn't sure if he is going to definitely win. Let's not forget the infinite energy is going to play a huge factor here as well. Kkx3 Goku vs Vegeta looks in somewhat similar fashion to Ssj Goku vs 19. Yet, at the same ending point of the hand to hand battle, Vegeta looks like he's nearly finished while 19 looks perfectly fine. Durability is going to be a factor as suggested add their infinite energy and there is some serious issues there.

The power needed to take someone out very quickly, would also grant the same power to take two people of that power out with difficulty.

It's completely different fighting Freeza/Cold then fighting two people on the same level. Not even comparable. Freeza is massively more powerful than Cold.

 

[ahill1]

But does Trunks know Freeza >>> Cold?