Freeza > Base Saiyans

[GokhanDBZfan]

Because ''mathematically'', it's impossible for the Base Saiyans to be much stronger than Freeza, if the Earthlings' genki is relevant next to the genki of Gohan and co.
An average Earthling has BP of 5 and genki is only a part of that, so all the Earthlings combined would only make a BP of less than 30 billions, yet if the Base Saiyans are much stronger than Freeza, then even when using the official multipliers for the SSJ transformations, their genki would be irrelevant to Gohan and even Pure Buu's BP.

 

[Classic Adamas]

Freeza > Base Saiyans literally makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[kriss-]

Herms:
Gohan also says when he's about to begin the match with Kibito that even though Bulma told him to hide his true power so as not to cause a commotion, Kibito doesn't seem to be the sort of opponent he can beat while still disguising his power like this.

It's only inconsistent if you assume that because Kibito can't lift as much as Gohan can, then there's no way he could be a challange for Gohan in a fight. But that's not true in real martial arts, and there's nothing to say that's the case in the DB world either.

The specific moment from the French tankobon:

VOLUME 37: THE OFFENSIVE PLAN HAS BEGUN
CHAPTER 443: THE OFFENSIVE PLAN HAS BEGUN


GOHAN: "The situation's not turning good... If I show my real power, it's gonna cause a scandal and I won't be able to get back to school... That's what Bulma said... That's why I disguised myself in the first place... [LOOKS AT KIBITO'S FACE] Oooh... It doesn't look like I can beat that guy without using all of my power..."

I would take Herms and Kaboom over you anyday m8.

Then you're wrong. Gohan cannot sense Kibito, that is fact.

No sir, you're wrong.

Gohan says he acknowledged Kibito as a tough opponent based on his appearance. Nothing contradicts it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Herms:
Gohan also says when he's about to begin the match with Kibito that even though Bulma told him to hide his true power so as not to cause a commotion, Kibito doesn't seem to be the sort of opponent he can beat while still disguising his power like this.

It's only inconsistent if you assume that because Kibito can't lift as much as Gohan can, then there's no way he could be a challange for Gohan in a fight. But that's not true in real martial arts, and there's nothing to say that's the case in the DB world either.

The specific moment from the French tankobon:

VOLUME 37: THE OFFENSIVE PLAN HAS BEGUN
CHAPTER 443: THE OFFENSIVE PLAN HAS BEGUN


GOHAN: "The situation's not turning good... If I show my real power, it's gonna cause a scandal and I won't be able to get back to school... That's what Bulma said... That's why I disguised myself in the first place... [LOOKS AT KIBITO'S FACE] Oooh... It doesn't look like I can beat that guy without using all of my power..."

I would take Herms and Kaboom over you anyday m8.

Then you're wrong. Gohan cannot sense Kibito, that is fact.

No sir, you're wrong.

Gohan says he acknowledged Kibito as a tough opponent based on his appearance. Nothing contradicts it.

Based on his appearance? Weak argument.

 

[kriss-]

Then you're wrong. Gohan cannot sense Kibito, that is fact.

No sir, you're wrong.

Gohan says he acknowledged Kibito as a tough opponent based on his appearance. Nothing contradicts it.

Based on his appearance? Weak argument.

It's stated and not contradicted. Every other translation implies the exact same thing, as does the Daizenshuu.

Trying to discredit all of that because 'Well I don't like it', is sheer conjecture.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No sir, you're wrong.

Gohan says he acknowledged Kibito as a tough opponent based on his appearance. Nothing contradicts it.

Based on his appearance? Weak argument.

It's stated and not contradicted. Every other translation implies the exact same thing, as does the Daizenshuu.

Trying to discredit all of that because 'Well I don't like it', is sheer conjecture.

No, he's just making speculation. Piccolo said that Supreme Kaioshin is different dimension than them which can lead everyone speculating about Supreme Kai and Kibito.

 

[kriss-]

Based on his appearance? Weak argument.

It's stated and not contradicted. Every other translation implies the exact same thing, as does the Daizenshuu.

Trying to discredit all of that because 'Well I don't like it', is sheer conjecture.

No, he's just making speculation. Piccolo said that Supreme Kaioshin is different dimension than them which can lead everyone speculating about Supreme Kai and Kibito.

Piccolo said Supreme Kai is a different dimension in comparison to himself.

Supreme Kai said he doesn't think he can defeat Goku.

3 sources tell us that Kibito is around Gohan's Base form.

3 sources tell us that Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

You have nothing but reluctance and a willingness to disagree.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It's stated and not contradicted. Every other translation implies the exact same thing, as does the Daizenshuu.

Trying to discredit all of that because 'Well I don't like it', is sheer conjecture.

No, he's just making speculation. Piccolo said that Supreme Kaioshin is different dimension than them which can lead everyone speculating about Supreme Kai and Kibito.

Piccolo said Supreme Kai is a different dimension in comparison to himself.

Supreme Kai said he doesn't think he can defeat Goku.

3 sources tell us that Kibito is around Gohan's Base form.

3 sources tell us that Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

You have nothing but reluctance and a willingness to disagree.

Let's agree on the first one.

If Piccolo is comparing himself to Supreme Kai then the Saiyans are in trouble since they need to stay in their base form.

Provide the 3 source pls.

I never argue about Base Saiyans < Frieza just Kibito.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Freeza > Base Saiyans literally makes no sense whatsoever.

Explain how?

 

[kriss-]

No, he's just making speculation. Piccolo said that Supreme Kaioshin is different dimension than them which can lead everyone speculating about Supreme Kai and Kibito.

Piccolo said Supreme Kai is a different dimension in comparison to himself.

Supreme Kai said he doesn't think he can defeat Goku.

3 sources tell us that Kibito is around Gohan's Base form.

3 sources tell us that Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

You have nothing but reluctance and a willingness to disagree.

Let's agree on the first one.

If Piccolo is comparing himself to Supreme Kai then the Saiyans are in trouble since they need to stay in their base form.

Provide the 3 source pls.

I never argue about Base Saiyans < Frieza just Kibito.

Supreme Kai never heard the rule, so he's not factoring that in. The Kai's also know of Super Saiyan. As evident when Kibito asks Gohan to become one.

Herms:

“Man, this is a predicament. Bulma told me that if people found out my true power, there'd be a big commotion and it'd become hard for me to go to school anywhere. That's why I disguised myself, but...He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

That last sentence is one of those that’s kinda hard to translate literally. “Covering up” (gomakasu) is in the sense of faking it or deceiving someone, not simply in the sense of wearing a disguise, and in context he's almost certainly talking about covering up his true power (since that's what he mentions disguising himself in order to prevent people from finding out about). So essentially, Gohan doesn’t think he can win while still covering up his actual power. Hence Viz’s ‘by accident’ being in quotation marks: they mean the sort of thing Shen did, hiding his power by making it look like he won by pure accident. So I can see what Viz was going for with their translation, but I think it is kinda confusing.

The daizenshuu line is from Kibito’s Daizenshuu 7 bio: “His battle power is considerably high, enough to give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he wasn’t a Super Saiyan.”

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo said Supreme Kai is a different dimension in comparison to himself.

Supreme Kai said he doesn't think he can defeat Goku.

3 sources tell us that Kibito is around Gohan's Base form.

3 sources tell us that Base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

You have nothing but reluctance and a willingness to disagree.

Let's agree on the first one.

If Piccolo is comparing himself to Supreme Kai then the Saiyans are in trouble since they need to stay in their base form.

Provide the 3 source pls.

I never argue about Base Saiyans < Frieza just Kibito.

Supreme Kai never heard the rule, so he's not factoring that in. The Kai's also know of Super Saiyan. As evident when Kibito asks Gohan to become one.

Herms:

“Man, this is a predicament. Bulma told me that if people found out my true power, there'd be a big commotion and it'd become hard for me to go to school anywhere. That's why I disguised myself, but...He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

That last sentence is one of those that’s kinda hard to translate literally. “Covering up” (gomakasu) is in the sense of faking it or deceiving someone, not simply in the sense of wearing a disguise, and in context he's almost certainly talking about covering up his true power (since that's what he mentions disguising himself in order to prevent people from finding out about). So essentially, Gohan doesn’t think he can win while still covering up his actual power. Hence Viz’s ‘by accident’ being in quotation marks: they mean the sort of thing Shen did, hiding his power by making it look like he won by pure accident. So I can see what Viz was going for with their translation, but I think it is kinda confusing.

The daizenshuu line is from Kibito’s Daizenshuu 7 bio: “His battle power is considerably high, enough to give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he wasn’t a Super Saiyan.”

First the Saiyans cannot sense Supreme kai and Kibito hence Gohan said ''He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

Gohan was just speculating Kibito's strength by appearance and not by power so your argument means nuthing!!!

 

[kriss-]

Let's agree on the first one.

If Piccolo is comparing himself to Supreme Kai then the Saiyans are in trouble since they need to stay in their base form.

Provide the 3 source pls.

I never argue about Base Saiyans < Frieza just Kibito.

Supreme Kai never heard the rule, so he's not factoring that in. The Kai's also know of Super Saiyan. As evident when Kibito asks Gohan to become one.

Herms:

“Man, this is a predicament. Bulma told me that if people found out my true power, there'd be a big commotion and it'd become hard for me to go to school anywhere. That's why I disguised myself, but...He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

That last sentence is one of those that’s kinda hard to translate literally. “Covering up” (gomakasu) is in the sense of faking it or deceiving someone, not simply in the sense of wearing a disguise, and in context he's almost certainly talking about covering up his true power (since that's what he mentions disguising himself in order to prevent people from finding out about). So essentially, Gohan doesn’t think he can win while still covering up his actual power. Hence Viz’s ‘by accident’ being in quotation marks: they mean the sort of thing Shen did, hiding his power by making it look like he won by pure accident. So I can see what Viz was going for with their translation, but I think it is kinda confusing.

The daizenshuu line is from Kibito’s Daizenshuu 7 bio: “His battle power is considerably high, enough to give Gohan a difficult fight as long as he wasn’t a Super Saiyan.”

First the Saiyans cannot sense Supreme kai and Kibito hence Gohan said ''He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

Gohan was just speculating Kibito's strength by appearance and not by power so your argument means nuthing!!!

Nothing says Gohan can beat him without going all out.

Statements are true until contradicted.

By virtue of Occams Razor, you are even more wrong.

Occam's razor. : a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities.

 

[Emmeth]

Gohan can't sense Kibito, but can assess based on impression. Goku says he has a feeling it won't be easy for Gohan to win against Kibito; That's the author saying Kibito is around Base Saiyans. Author's intent goes a long way in discussions like this.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Supreme Kai never heard the rule, so he's not factoring that in. The Kai's also know of Super Saiyan. As evident when Kibito asks Gohan to become one.

Herms:

First the Saiyans cannot sense Supreme kai and Kibito hence Gohan said ''He doesn’t seem like an opponent that I can beat while suitably covering up [my true power].”

Gohan was just speculating Kibito's strength by appearance and not by power so your argument means nuthing!!!

Nothing says Gohan can beat him without going all out.

Statements are true until contradicted.

By virtue of Occams Razor, you are even more wrong.

Occam's razor. : a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities.

It's a speculation not statement.

 

[Uchiha]

Statements are true until contradicted.

“…Well, I guess that’s fine. If nobody becomes a Super Saiyan, then the conditions are the same. My superior position doesn’t change…”

Good to know. Seems like you have a lot of common misconceptions about the original manga.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Kaioshin knows Gohan can become a Super Saiyan because they saw him do it.

With the way Kaioshin thought Vegeta and Goku were in trouble, you'd think he was unaware of their ability to transform.

Anyway, the Daizenshuu says Kaioshin fears Yakon and he believes a team attack is required against him. No reason to be fearful of someone who's many times weaker than himself. You can say he was cautious, but he's also scared of Yakon like he is Dabra.

 

[ahill1]

The base kids are already around Android arc SSJs, so...

@GokhanDBZfan - AT is inconsistent as hell with these things. Like Cell, who was from weaker than weighted Piccolo to way stronger than him after absorbing less than a billion of people.

Or Babidi wondering if Spopovich had stole energy from a few hundred of people as if it were enough to fill half of Boo's meter.

 

[Emmeth]

The base kids are already around Android arc SSJs, so...

I don't necessarily agree with that. 18 would very likely hold back so not to hurt any of the audience members, because they have unfathomable power.

 

[Uchiha]

Maybe, but not enough evidence to override the statement that she has trouble holding back.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

@ahill1
Same could be said about Kaioshin's reactions to the Saiyans in Babidi's ship, really.
Kaioshin can stop Gohan, who could whoop all of the henchmen's butts except for Dabra, yet freaks out over Pui Pui and Yakon.
Cell absorbed the humans' ''life energy'', not ki or genki.

That just shows Babidi is completely clueless, really.He expects to gather SSJ2 energy from Pui Pui beating up the Base Saiyans.