Freeza Saga Levels

[p123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLIeAD5bt1c

Planet Namek​

Freeza's Scouts 500

Gohan 1,500

Krillin 1,500

Freeza's Soldiers 2,000

Namekian Fighters (Suppressed) 1,000
~ Full Power 3,000

Goku (Healed on Earth) 12,500

Cui 16,000

Dodoria 20,000

Zarbon 21,000
~ Transformed 28,500

Vegeta (Initial) 12,000
~ Full Power 24,000
~ Zenkai 30,000

Ginyu Force​

Krillen
~ (Guru Power Up) 11,500

Gohan
~ (Guru Power Up) 13,000

Vegeta 30,000

Reecome 40,000

Burter 40,000

Jeice 40,000

Nail 42,000

Vegeta
~ (Zenkai) 50,000

Captain Ginyu (Initial) 65,000
~ Powered Up 75,000
~ Full Power (Unseen) 120,000

Goku (Ginyu Estimate) 60,000
~ Initial Power 65,000
~ Powered Up 75,000
~ Ginyu Estimates Full Power 85,000
~ Full Power 90,000
~ Kaioken x2 180,000
(~ Kaioken x10, Unseen) (900,000)



Ginyu Saga Pt. 2


Krillen
~ (Guru Power Up Extended) 23,000

Ginyu in Goku
~ 23,000

Gohan
~ (Guru Power Up Extended) 26,000

Jeice 40,000

Vegeta
~ (Zenkai Extended) 75,000 (Might have to put this at 150,000)

Freeza Saga​

Krillin 250,000

Gohan 300,000

Piccolo (W/Weights) 275,000
~ W/o Weights (Unseen) 350,000

Vegeta 475,000

Freeza (Initial) 440,000
~ Full Power 530,000
(~ Vegeta Estimate for Transformation) (700,000)

(Hypothetical Kamiccolo, W/Weights) (550,000)
(~ W/o Weights) (700,000)

Freeza Saga Part 2​

Gohan 300,000
~ Enraged 900,000

2nd Form Freeza 1,060,000
~ Powered Up 1,300,000
~ Full Power 1,600,000

Piccolo (Fused W/ Nail, W/Weights) 1,350,000
~ W/o Weights 1,700,000

Gohan (Zenkai) 1,000,000
~ Enraged 2,000,000
~ Masenko 2,500,000

3rd Form Freeza 2,500,000

Vegeta 4,500,000
~ Final Burst Cannon 8,000,000

Freeza (Initial) 5,000,000
~ Powered Up 6,000,000
~ Max Base Power 8,750,000
~ 50% Power 180,000,000
~ 50% Power Death Beam 225,000,000
~ 70% Power 250,000,000
~ 100% Power 360,000,000

Goku (Initial) 5,750,000
~ Full Power 7,500,000
~ Kaioken x10 75,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 150,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 Kamehameha 187,500,000
~ Super Saiyan 375,000,000

 

[p123]

Interesting line I found...

After Gohan gets his zenkai and powers up... (Japanese Anime)

Vegeta- Slight though it may be, fate has somewhat turned to our favor. With the three of us fighting now, something may turn out.

 

[ahill1]

That is a little different compared to the manga's line. Plus, considering this line, it doesn't like Gohan would be the only one fighting Freeza, it seems their combined effort would lead to the turn of tables. But it's also worth noting that Vegeta also stated were the three of them to fight together against 1st form Freeza (and Gohan still was his pre Zenkai self there) they might be able to manage something, so -- considering the anime's line -- their relationship to 2nd form Freeza (with Gohan now getting a huge Zenkai) might be more or less the same to how they stacked up to 1st form Freeza before, with Gohan now (similarly to Vegeta beforehand) being the main fighter to hold down Freeza with the other two being important back ups?

It's also interesting how Vegeta still makes a case of mentioning Kuririn as someone that is still important in shifting the scales into their favor, whereas Kuririn should be already far, far oitclassed by then. I guess that might mean -- at least anime-wise -- that a fighter doesn't need to be up there in the enemy's realm of power to be of some help, so long as the difference isn't a totally drastic one like a Cell-Satan one.

 

[p123]

Vegeta- Slight though it may be, fate has somewhat turned to our favor.

That is what I'd go with, the next line seems like filler.

With Krillen's skills being displayed and Gohan's enraged power being ever present, I wouldn't do any power comparison off of that line. But all in all just reiterating Gohan's zenkai has to be stupendously powerful.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I wouldn't matter having him hitting the 1 million mark there, although one would figure Vegeta'd show more of an angry demeanor upon witnessing how stronger than him Gohan had became.

 

[p123]

Yea, but who knows, Vegeta is so emasculated at this point, survival seems to be the only thing on his mind.

Freeza FP wrecks Piccolo Weighted badly man, he does some serious damage.

I think this is the fake ki issue that Lightsworn was begging to have rubbed in his face. Tell him that, I'm banned until tomorrow on Neo.

Any other nitpicks you have with my numbers?

I think Speed Up Freeza should probably be 1.5x Vegeta and not just 1.33x, but I'm still figuring that out now.

 

[ahill1]

They look really fine, nothing that comes as rather off to me. I think I'd have pre Zenkai Vegeta a little closer to 1st form Freeza, maybe. You have an 89% gap between them, and I don't think handsome Zarbon or Kk Goku could hold off Vegeta like that, I think they'd be quickly overwhelmed. I think the gap between Vegeta and Freeza being closer to Freeza and SSJ Goku makes more sense, as in, Vegeta was still outclassed, but he could still hold his own for longer than those guys.

 

[p123]

I don't know. Vegeta seems dependant on Gohan and Krillen's help to win. I don't think he can win on his own, but he can put up a fight.

Freeza attacks sloppily, getting his punch caught and then it turns into a raw power clash. Vegeta has to put everything into it and is exhausted after the clash whereas Freeza was definitely trying hard, but he doesn't seem fatigued at all.

It's hard to find that balance there. I feel pretty comfortable with what I got there.

Vegeta vs Speed Up Freeza, what do you see that gap?

And yea I agree overall, this set is done very well. It's about as important as anything, this is the most prolific saga of them all. I can't wait to release the video for this one, working double hard to try to make it perfect.

Also, have we reached a consensus on Vegeta > Base Goku with that whole Ginyu in Goku debacle? I don't want to make Vegeta 150k, but logically he must be, right?

 

[ahill1]

I don't know. Vegeta seems dependant on Gohan and Krillin's help to win. I don't think he can win on his own, but he can put up a fight.

Freeza attacks sloppily, getting his punch caught and then it turns into a raw power clash. Vegeta has to put everything into it and is exhausted after the clash whereas Freeza was definitely trying hard, but he doesn't seem fatigued at all.

Yeah, but do you feel Vegeta would have to put some effort and yet be unable to overwhelm Zarbon like Freeza was unable to? I definitely don't, even moreso accounting for the fact that Vegeta caught Zarbon's punch whilst being apparently nonchalantly:

Spoiler

You can see by the artwork that Zarbon was trying to press Vegeta back upon having his punch caught whereas Vegeta remained nonchalantly and quickly threw him into midair.


It's true that Vegeta seems to be also taking Gohan and Kuririn's help into consideration as a way to defeat Freeza, but he also knows Freeza can increase his power via transformation.

But yeah, looking at their faces when grappling, Vegeta seemed to be sweatting all over his face, greeting his teeth and using every bit of effort availble to him, whereas Freeza didn't really see to be putting that much of a struggle, although he isn't nonchalant either. I dunno, I think 480 might be fine. I hadn't the impression that Zarbon would be able to catch Vegeta's punch and hold him in the same spot for so long specially seeing how quickly he was overwhelmed upon having his punch caught , but I think I could picture it were he basically shitting himself out of effort.

 

[p123]

Yea, 480 might be the hot spot where we hit all of those issues.

To be fair, this is how it would look...

Freeza 530
Vegeta 480
Zarbon 463.75

Zarbon is 96% of Vegeta in this scenario. (In the Zarbon fight I have him at 87.5% of Vegeta)

So Vegeta has a bit extra power more than Zarbon did against Vegeta...

I'll bump it up from 475 to 480 then...

I might drop Vegeta Post Zenkai down to 4,000.

What do you make of Speed Up Freeza vs Vegeta? 66 or 75? Or 70? Why?

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta vs Speed Up Freeza, what do you see that gap?

Freeza's dominance over Vegeta seems for sure more impressive/bigger than Recoome's dominamce over Vegeta. Whilst Vegeta was still severely outclassed by Recoome and considered as a child's play, Vegeta's eyes were already spinning the moment Freeza increased his speed. 1.5x works best for that kind of dominance... even though Vegeta didn't try to fight back despite launching that powerful blast, Freeza seemed to be kind of a God to Vegeta... it seems to scream more a Goku vs Ginyu showdown imo.

 

[p123]

I agree.

 

[p123]

Vegeta Zenkai vs Initial True Form Freeza

90%? 88? 93?

 

[ahill1]

Also, have we reached a consensus on Vegeta > Base Goku with that whole Ginyu in Goku debacle? I don't want to make Vegeta 150k, but logically he must be, right?

Shouldn't Vegeta be > 180k as well? Why just above 90k and not 180k?

 

[p123]

Goku says Ginyu would never learn the Kaioken. To have someone stronger than 23k, Vegeta only needs to be stronger than 90k.

Also, No Hands Freeza vs Goku. What' do you have that gap at? I'll answer, tomorrow. I'm off to bed.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta Zenkai vs Initial True Form Freeza

90%? 88? 93?

I like your assessment that Vegeta's disadvantage against 1st form Freeza seems to be the same as his disadvantage against initial true form Freeza. His reactions in both situations seem to be kind of similar as well. Look at Vegeta's face when 1st form Freeza is powering up, he is sweatting and nervous with such power. Similarly, Vegeta was also sweatting and anxiously trying to follow true form Freeza's movements and anxiously watching him swiflty dodging everyone (anime)... against true form Freeza he thinks he can do it alone due to being convinced he is the SSJ, which is the first thing he mentions when he fails to follow Freeza's movements. So since you have a 90% gap between Vegeta and 1st form Freeza, I think the same gap could work here smoothly.

Initial true form Freeza - 100
Vegeta - 90

It's also worth noting that Freeza also makes a point of increasing his speed and even Goku does seem surprised Vegeta's chi is getting lower so suddenly, which to me implies Vegeta wouldn't be done in so quickly by initial true form Freeza.

 

[ahill1]

Goku says Ginyu would never learn the Kaioken. To have someone stronger than 23k, Vegeta only needs to be stronger than 90k.

Also, No Hands Freeza vs Goku. What' do you have that gap at? I'll answer, tomorrow. I'm off to bed.

That's true, good point about the Kaioken technique. But I think I remember Kenshi addressing that as well, as in, Ginyu merely thinks that 180k is Goku's standard, base power.

 

[p123]

Does Ginyu say anything about he will definitely win? I thought it was Goku?

I don't think Ginyu would experience trouble with Vegeta's power. I think he would gain all of Vegeta's power. Vegeta isn't adept at the ki properties Goku is. Perhaps that it the issue, Ginyu seems shocked he can't bring the power out.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think Ginyu would experience trouble with Vegeta's power. I think he would gain all of Vegeta's power. Vegeta isn't adept at the ki properties Goku is. Perhaps that it the issue, Ginyu seems shocked he can't bring the power out.

But if that is the case, why does Ginyu entertain taking out Vegeta's body just upon knowing exactly how strong this latter is? If it were simply a case of Ginyu knowing that with Vegeta he could bring up all of his powers, then taking out his body would have been something he would have entertained as soon as Vegeta defeated Jheese, no? Instead he just wishes to switch bodies with Vegeta upon feeling the weight behind Vegeta's attacks.

Besides, it seems the Saiyajins do share some similar body traits, given Vegeta also implies he should be able to sense chi since Kakarotto can too. So I think Ginyu knowing he can utilize all of Vegeta's powers despite seeing how he completely failed to do so with another Saiyajin to be pretty doubtful.

 

[p123]

Do you think Ginyu had every body changed before?