Fusion Multipliers

[Power Level Guy]

Ok @SSJ2

Let's stress test this reduced multiplier business.

1. Is the fusion formula exponential? Or static?
2. How strong do you roughly have KibitoShin?
3. How strong is Shin is comparison to the Base Saiyans?

 

[SSJ2]

1. I'm not sure on this one. On one hand you would think it's exponential because of the gains Gotenks made in the RoSaT. On the other hand, the boys were never noted to power up despite the gains Gotenks made. Maybe training while fused on changes the power of the fused fighter, more or less adding on top of a "static" multiplier. You know what I mean?

2. He's probably around SSJ2 tier. He's strong enough where absorbing him would make Pure Boo unbeatable for Goku.

3. Far weaker. If he considers one shotting Freeza to be a notable feat, I can't see him being much stronger than the Androids at best.

 

[Power Level Guy]

1. I'm not sure on this one. On one hand you would think it's exponential because of the gains Gotenks made in the RoSaT. On the other hand, the boys were never noted to power up despite the gains Gotenks made. Maybe training while fused on changes the power of the fused fighter, more or less adding on top of a "static" multiplier. You know what I mean?

Yes, I'm with you. Post-RoSaT Gotenks could different for a variety of reasons.

Ok, let me pivot with these two questions. Do you think Zamasu Arc Vegetto and Broly movie Gogeta are receiving the same boost as Pre-RoSaT Gotenks if they didn't have a rivals boost?

2. He's probably around SSJ2 tier. He's strong enough where absorbing him would make Pure Boo unbeatable for Goku.

Why wouldn't he stick around and help out if he's somewhat comparable to Vegeta's strength?

3. Far weaker. If he considers one shotting Freeza to be a notable feat, I can't see him being much stronger than the Androids at best.

So you consider Pre-RoSaT Base Gotenks and KibitoShin to be similar in power?

 

[SSJ2]

Yes, I'm with you. Post-RoSaT Gotenks could different for a variety of reasons.

Ok, let me pivot with these two questions. Do you think Zamasu Arc Vegetto and Broly movie Gogeta are receiving the same boost as Pre-RoSaT Gotenks if they didn't have a rivals boost?

I don't know. I feel like fusion is more intricate than a mere multiplier. Vegetto would be different due to the potara, but maybe the same would apply to Gogeta? I'm not current with the scaling of that part of Super.

Why wouldn't he stick around and help out if he's somewhat comparable to Vegeta's strength?

Well SSJ2 tier is a wide tier. He could be FP Perfect Cell level and still be SSJ2 tier, a level which is fodder to Vegeta who is fodder to Boo.

So you consider Pre-RoSaT Base Gotenks and KibitoShin to be similar in power?

No not exactly. I've got Base Gotenks pre around Good Boo level. Kibitoshin isn't coming close to that.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don't know. I feel like fusion is more intricate than a mere multiplier. Vegetto would be different due to the potara, but maybe the same would apply to Gogeta? I'm not current with the scaling of that part of Super.

Well here's the problem. If it's not exponential, you have to explain this.

Base Vegetto > Blue Goku

So if we took that same multiplier for Gotenks that means...

Base Gotenks > Hypothetical Blue Goten

I'm sure you'd disagree with that, right?

 

[SSJ2]

Sure, but is Base Vegetto actually above Blue Goku? Goku has CSSJB and was on par with Merged Zamasu. Vegetto still felt the need to use Blue regardless of whether he blasted Merged Zamasu by surprise in Base.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sure, but is Base Vegetto actually above Blue Goku?

Indeed he is. He's above Blue Goku. He may not be above PSSJB Goku though.

Also, we don't need to do Vegetto, we can use Gogeta.

Base Gogeta > Blue Goku in the Broly movie as well.

Base Vegetto has feats that put him above Blue Goku/Vegeta. Base Gogeta has feats that put him above Blue Goku/Vegeta as well.

If we leave PSSJB out of this, it'll make my point hit home.

So do you agree Base Fusion > Blue Fuser?

 

[SSJ2]

In Super at least it's a guarantee.

 

[Power Level Guy]

In Super at least it's a guarantee.

Ok, so doesn't this prove to you that fusion must be exponential? You don't assume Gotenks is receiving a beyond Blue fusion boost in the Buu Saga, do you?

 

[SSJ2]

It's exponential but there has to be a limit to it. If Gotenks is getting that much stronger while the individuals didn't gain any power, that opens the door to some pretty ridiculous power with fusions.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It's exponential but there has to be a limit to it. If Gotenks is getting that much stronger while the individuals didn't gain any power, that opens the door to some pretty ridiculous power with fusions.

I'd say Base Gogeta > Blue Goku is an insanely ridiculous gain in power.

Fusion boosts just keep on getting bigger and bigger.

We always seem to end up with Base Fusion > Top Power Fuser. That seems to be the standard.

 

[SSJ2]

Why does this shut down a reduced SSJ multiplier though?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why does this shut down a reduced SSJ multiplier though?

It doesn't. But I can build a wall of facts that prove that it is highly unlikley.

So Step 1 is proving that fusion is exponential. Do we agree here?

 

[SSJ2]

Sure I'll agree.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So if fusion is exponential, it's clearly based off of the top power. Would you agree with that as well?

If exponential, it must be based off of top power, then work backwards. @SSJ2

 

[SSJ2]

Sure that's fine. But how do you explain that with Gotenks' RoSaT gains?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Sure that's fine. But how do you explain that with Gotenks' RoSaT gains?

What gains? The gag hype gains?

Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku cannot be the real story. You know that.

 

[SSJ2]

Why not? Base Gogeta > Blue Goku. Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku is nothing compared to that.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why not? Base Gogeta > Blue Goku. Base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku is nothing compared to that.

Would you feel the same way if I proved Super Saiyan was a 50x boost for fusion as well?

 

[SSJ2]

Would you feel the same way if I proved Super Saiyan was a 50x boost for fusion as well?

If you can convince me then I'll believe it.