Gap Battle #1: SSJ2 Pre-Teen Gohan vs. FP Perfect Cell or Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Boo

[Void]

Was 20>19 ever unlikely to you? It's blatantly put out there in the manga.

 

[p123]

I don't know. From a numerical standpoint, it just was too hard to do. But then I, God to Yoshi, P123 came and figured it out. But still, the gap you need to have for 19 and Vegeta is really big. Not sure if that hurts everything else though.

 

[Victorious]

19 post vs Vegeta needs to be 60% because of Recoome vs Vegeta?

 

[Void]

Because Vegeta tanks 19 punch "worse" than Gohan tanks Cell's punch. ^^

 

[p123]

No because of what we see.

Super Saiyan Goku (Initial) > Android 19 Post > Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) > Android 19

From my understanding of the fight, that's how the chain breaks down. Goku's KHH brings 19 up several levels, but it's clear Goku vs 19 is not a 2x gap or anything. Also, 19 doesn't seem to be quite on Goku's previous level, and Gero seems to be behind for both scenarios.

The point is, look at 19 vs Goku. There's no way that Goku is all that greatly superior to 19. Maybe 1.5x at best. But even then, that ain't shit. 19 and 20 are actually really fucking strong, at least in comparison to Androids Goku, who should be above Yardrat Goku.

Alright been up all day, probably doesn't make sense but look into it.

 

[Victorious]

I think 19 post can be stronger than Initial sick SSJ Goku. Thats how my numbers have always worked at least.

 

[p123]

It doesn't seem likely Vic. Here's why.

Goku vs 19 is a bigger gap than Goku Post KHH vs 19 Post.

Gero's comments suggest that Goku's power dropping and 19's power increasing is what will lead to 19's success.

Goku has dropped dramatically, yet is still pretty close to 19.

19's power doesn't seem as awesome as Goku's.

I'm not saying major differences but I think it's clear that


Super Saiyan Goku > 19 Post > 20 > 19 Pre

The only question then becomes how strong is Goku Post KHH in relation to 20? Judging by Gero's face, I think Gero is still probably inferior by a little to this weakened Goku.

Look at the fight and tell me what you think.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I can't have #19 post less than 60% of Vegeta SSJ, and even 60% is already a bit tough to have:

#19 post 60
#20post 66~68
Piccolo 80
Goku 96
Vegeta 100

And Gohan's tank at Perfect Cell seems to be better than Vegeta's tank against #19, making the gap greater than 60%. I like to have a 4x multiplier for SSJ2, so Gohan increased his powers by 4x, while Perfect Cell increased it by 2x going full power (making the gap 50%).

 

[p123]

Couple of issues. Now that Vic has brought it up...

1) Piccolo vs 17. If we think Piccolo doubled his power, this messes up everything. Gohan vs Cell cannot be at 50% because Piccolo vs 17 is at 50%. Piccolo got manhandled way worse. If we made Cell 55% of Gohan, perhaps that would work though.

2) Yea that formula actually makes a lot of sense.

Ssj2 Gohan 200
Perfect Cell 100
Ssj Gohan/Cell 50

I agree also. I don't think we can Cell any less than 50%. He is showing a huge aura, we see 50% Goku have an aura. I can't advocate for Cell getting a bigger power up than that because of this.

And agreed, getting 19 Post at 60% of Vegeta is already tough enough as is.

 

[Victorious]

I havent read or watched this fight in years. But i dont think SSJ sick Goku initial has that big a gap on 19 pre. Seems to be smaller than a 75% gap. Unless u thibk Goku is holding back his punches but theres no reason he was.

 

[Victorious]

Piccolo vs #17 = 50%. FP Cell vs SSJ2 Kid Gohan = 60%. 19 post vs SSJ Vegeta = 70%.

 

[p123]

He's not holding back. I think the gap is somewhere around that as well.

Super Saiyan Goku 100
Android 19 Post 90
Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) 80
Android 20 75
Android 19 70

I think something like this probably works out real well...

 

[p123]

Super Saiyan Vegeta 150
Super Saiyan Goku 145
Super Saiyan Trunks 135
Piccolo 120
Android 20 Post 100
Super Saiyan Goku 100
Android 19 Post 90
Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) 80
Android 20 75
Android 19 70

Something like this works out rather nicely imo.

 

[p123]

Vic, 19 Post being 70% of Vegeta won't work anymore. Not with 20 > 19.

 

[Future Warrior]

I can see Cell and 19 being at 60% of Vegeta.

 

[p123]

19 Most nearly has to be at 60%. Can't really get it any higher than that. Also, any lower for the gap creates wide issues.

Imo...

19 Post is 60% of Vegeta
Cell is 60% of Vegeta
Cell is 55% of Gohan
Piccolo is 50% of 17
Vegeta is 45% of Cell
16 is 45% of Cell

That's the best I can go with for now...

Unless we want to go with Piccolo 2.5x his power with Kami. Which could work, but then we have to really watch how much stronger Kamiccolo comes out as after fusing in comparison to the Super Saiyans. We already need to put Piccolo in the 80% just to make the previous Androids shit work. So it gets very difficult.

 

[Victorious]

OK. Well i think 20 post is weaker than 19 post. As long as u have #17's gap on Piccolo bigger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan's gap on FP Perfect Cell....and SSJ Vegeta's gap on #19 post bigger than SSJ sick Goku's gap on #19 pre then im ok. Though my beef would be i feel a 5% difference between Gohan vs Cell and #17 vs Piccolo is too small. Another thing is i never got the view Vegeta's hap on #19 post was a Goku vs Ginyus type of gap. I definitely dont see Vegeta tooling three #19s at the same time. Goku's offensive feats seem more impressive vs the Ginyus.

 

[ahill1]

It's also worth note #17 was probably not going all out against Piccolo when two shotting him, which could cause more issues.

 

[Victorious]

He was at full strengh but obviously his effort was very casual. He didnt look intense at all.

 

[Victorious]

Super Saiyan Vegeta 150
Super Saiyan Goku 145
Super Saiyan Trunks 135
Piccolo 120
Android 20 Post 100
Super Saiyan Goku 100
Android 19 Post 90
Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) 80
Android 20 75
Android 19 70

Something like this works out rather nicely imo.

Question. Where do u have Yardrat Goku then? I feel initial sick Goku is >> him.