Gap Battle

[p123]

Vegeta + Friends vs Freeza 1st Form
Vegeta + Friends vs Freeza Final Form


Is the gap bigger the second time around? Can Piccolo and an Enraged Gohan even provide any help to Vegeta? This is if Freeza never increased his speed as well. I think Freeza's power is just too massive at this point.

 

[ahill1]

I have Piccolo about 50% of Vegeta's powers, the same percentage Kuririn was hitting of pre Zenkai Vegeta imo. So Piccolo in this battle would be about as relevant as Kuririn would be in the fight against first form Freeza imo, which isn't saying much when Piccolo is the strongest here while Kuririn was the weakest.

 

[p123]

I think that would be wrong. If Piccolo was this relevant, Vegeta wouldn't be shitting bricks and so reliant on his own power. I believe there's a quote which Vegeta states the others uselessness. Meanwhile, just not so long ago he was praising Krillen and Gohan for their ability to alter the fight.

3rd Form Freeza should be getting destroyed by Vegeta, so that's already a no go on your part, but this pushes it even further. There appears to be a massive gap in power here...

 

[Victorious]

The gap is bigger second time around. Especially if we are talking about a non enraged Gohan.

 

[p123]

Why wouldn't he be enraged? Dende was just killed.

 

[Victorious]

Raged Gohan = 3rd form Freeza. What is initial true form Freeza? Maybe 2x 3rd form Freeza.

 

[p123]

Well Gohan should be a bit behind 3rd Form. But he's close. His Masenko is on par with 3rd Form Freeza. Masenko is probably about as amplified as Goku's Kaioken Kamehameha's. 1.25x or so should do it.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking Vic. Check this out...


Freeza 530,000
Vegeta 475,000
Gohan 300,000
Krillen 250,000

Vegeta states that Gohan/Krillen give him the edge. Krillen is almost 47% of Freeza, Gohan 56%.


Freeza 5,000,000
Vegeta 4,400,000
Gohan 1,800,000
Piccolo 1,700,000

Here, Piccolo and Enraged Gohan are like 35% of Freeza. Significantly less helpful here. Hell, you can go even further. Piccolo considers Goku/Freeza's Warm Up Power to be God like.

 

[Victorious]

Raged Gohan >> Piccolo.

 

[p123]

How so? I think Piccolo deflecting Gohan's Masenko suggests that Piccolo ain't all that far off from Gohan.

 

[ahill1]

Kuririn is a wild card. I mean, he is enough to help Vegeta when battling a hypothetical transformed Freeza, but still 'weak' enough that he can't even harm Vegeta unless this latter lowers his battle power.

 

[p123]

Krillen can't really harm Vegeta unless he cuts him in half with the Kienzan. So there's that. Clearly his Solar Flare and Kienzan are helpful at any battle power. But, Vegeta specifically speaks of their strength. He is talking about their chances against Transformed Freeza and not just Current Freeza right?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, transformed Freeza.

 

[Victorious]

How so? I think Piccolo deflecting Gohan's Masenko suggests that Piccolo ain't all that far off from Gohan.

Im still going by Gohan having shity amp. Gohan's Masenko is roughly equal to 3rd form Freeza. It took Freeza like an hour to push that thing back.

 

[p123]

So that means the Masenko should be on par with 3rd Form Freeza, not Gohan.

 

[Victorious]

Yes but Gohan's amp sucks IMO

3rd form Freeza : 100
Gohan's Masenko : 100
Gohan : 90
Piccolo : 70-75

 

[p123]

Nah, A Masenko is a Masenko...

3rd Form Freeza 100
Masenko 100
Gohan 80
Piccolo 75


I'm giving Masenko and Goku's KKx20 Kamehameha the same amp. 1.25x, it's fair and sensible. And falls in line with Piccolo saying Goku's amp was pathetic back then.

Also, you can still have Goku's regular Kamehameha Amp at 2.22x without issue because the Kaioken explains why Cell's was so weak.

 

[Victorious]

Gohan's ki attacks on 2nd form Freeza didn't seem much more damaging than his punches or kicks. Anyway 3rd form Freeza's speed feats against Piccolo may be even bigger than a 75% gap.

 

[p123]

Masenko >> Ki Attacks

Yes, I'm more of a 70% gap for 3rd Form Freeza guy. I'm ok with 66% though.

What I think is important today was learning that Piccolo/Gohan can't do jack shit to Final Form Freeza to help Vegeta. That's a huge power up from 3rd Form. Vegeta dominates 3rd Form with ease. Just like the feel of the story indicates.

 

[Victorious]

70% seems good. 66% too big. I just remember Piccolo was way above Freeza flying at full speed and suddenly zap Freeza was in front of him. Recoome and KKx3 Goku were much too fast for Vegeta but I don't remember it being like that big of a speed difference.

 

[p123]

Agreed. I usually have it 1.7 to 2.4 million gap.