Gap between Vegeta and Dabra

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How big is it? Vegeta thinks Dabra is complete trash, but Gohan is often considered close enough to try fusion with Goku.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

It mostly depends on which form you think Gohan was in while fighting Dabura or which form you think Vegeta and Goku were talking about when they say that they can defeat him.

My levels:

Dabura: 261.250.000.000
Full efort: 263.000.000.000

SSJ Vegeta: 296.875.000.000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 890.625.000.000

Of course, I believe that Gohan was a SSJ but not due to the lack of aura or sparks weird stuff.

 

[SIAD]

With minimalist numbers:

Gohan SSJ2 (CG) = 100
(Final Rage Burst) = 144

SPC = 100

Gohan SSJ2 (Vs Dabura) = 92

Dabura (Suppressed vs. Gohan) = 100
(FP) = 112

Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) = 125

Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = 156.25

 

[Yoshi]

He was most likely taking Dabura in comparison to his SSJ2 state. There’s also the fact that Dabura was toying with Gohan.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

At most:
Cell Games SSJ Goku: 75
Buu Saga SSJ Gohan: 80
Dabura (vs Gohan): 80
Cell (vs Goku): 82.5
Full effort Dabura (hypothetical): 88
Expected SSJ Goku: 90
SSJ PM Vegeta: 93.75

Yeah, this is an old thread, but I think is an interesting topic to discuss. All of this judging from the perspective that Gohan was just a SSJ vs him.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think AT particularly gives a shit about the part where he said two parties need to be very close in power to try the dance considering he established that Ultimate Gohan can fuse with Goku despite the massive power difference between them. Goku also didn't seem to expect Vegeta to have SSJ2 and it's a bit strange that he'd expect Vegeta's SSJ2 multiplier to be a lot smaller than his own or some such nonsense, so SSJ Majin Vegeta >> SSJ normal Vegeta >> Dabura imo. Then there's also Vegeta stressing Gohan was a lot better as a kid, and Goku in all forms being somewhat above kid Gohan. That "two parties need to be very close in build and power" thing should probably be taken with a grain of salt. I believe Goku simply didn't try Fusion with the afterlife fighters because many of them were probably on like Ginyu level (similar to other so-called top tier fighters like pre-DB unlock Granolah and Gas) and they would provide absolutely zero benefit from fusing with him.

 

[Animelover5487]

I don't think AT particularly gives a shit about the part where he said two parties need to be very close in power to try the dance considering he established that Ultimate Gohan can fuse with Goku despite the massive power difference between them. Goku also didn't seem to expect Vegeta to have SSJ2 and it's a bit strange that he'd expect Vegeta's SSJ2 multiplier to be a lot smaller than his own or some such nonsense, so SSJ Majin Vegeta >> SSJ normal Vegeta >> Dabura imo. Then there's also Vegeta stressing Gohan was a lot better as a kid, and Goku in all forms being somewhat above kid Gohan. That "two parties need to be very close in build and power" thing should probably be taken with a grain of salt. I believe Goku simply didn't try Fusion with the afterlife fighters because many of them were probably on like Ginyu level (similar to other so-called top tier fighters like pre-DB unlock Granolah and Gas) and they would provide absolutely zero benefit from fusing with him.

Goku was going to fuse with Ultimate Gohan via potara.

 

[Papasmurf]

Goku was going to fuse with Ultimate Gohan via potara.

Goku was only suggested to fuse with Gohan via the Potara because Old Kaioshit said Boo wouldn't wait for them to perform the dance.

 

[Goku9001]

I always figured that "Ultimate Gohan" was a separate state of being for Gohan. It brings out all of his dormant power to the surface in his normal state which enables him to power into the "mightiest of warriors". The way I see it is that fusing would only take into consideration of Gohan's ordinary base form and doesn't factor his power-up into the mightiest of warriors. After all, he has to consciously power into that state like Super Saiyans do.

As for the thread:

SSJ Goku: 100
SSJ Vegeta: 80
SSJ Gohan: 63
Dabura: 60

 

[Papasmurf]

I always figured that "Ultimate Gohan" was a separate state of being for Gohan. It brings out all of his dormant power to the surface in his normal state which enables him to power into the "mightiest of warriors". The way I see it is that fusing would only take into consideration of Gohan's ordinary base form and doesn't factor his power-up into the mightiest of warriors. After all, he has to consciously power into that state like Super Saiyans do.

As for the thread:

SSJ Goku: 100
SSJ Vegeta: 80
SSJ Gohan: 63
Dabura: 60

In the OG manga it just appeared to be a hyper powerful base form. Gohan didn't revert to his regular state when he was inactive for a whole hour, and his eyes were still fully inscribed and sharp when donating Ki to the genkidama.

 

[Goku9001]

In the OG manga it just appeared to be a hyper powerful base form. Gohan didn't revert to his regular state when he was inactive for a whole hour, and his eyes were still fully inscribed and sharp when donating Ki to the genkidama.

That's what it is but he still powers into it. It's obviously not his natural state. It's something he entered into consciously after the ritual concluded. That would be a better explanation for why Gohan could fuse with Goku just fine.

 

[Papasmurf]

That's what it is but he still powers into it. It's obviously not his natural state. It's something he entered into consciously after the ritual concluded. That would be a better explanation for why Gohan could fuse with Goku just fine.

It was stated to permanently alter his personality and Ki signature by Piccolo. I don't think Gohan (prior to DBS anime/Super Hero continuities retconning it) can physically revert to his non-Ultimate base state, only power down to regularly functioning levels like how Goku walks around with a BP of 5000 starting in the late Saiyan saga.

 

[SIAD]

I think there are times where Gohan just ults back to his normal form, being a hyper-powered Base. There are other times when he has the Ultimate form as a transformation.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think there are times where Gohan just ults back to his normal form, being a hyper-powered Base. There are other times when he has the Ultimate form as a transformation.

Only material written years and years after the end of the manga seems to treat it as a transformation that can be switched on and off, except Z Movie 13

Prior to Super Hero Gohan seemed to be in the altered base state at all times, other than when he lost the fitness level to retain the potential unlock's benefits (or most of them) in RoF. The Super manga version of the ToP also treated Ultimate as a permanent form that only has differing levels of power utilized depending on the situation

 

[SIAD]

Only material written years and years after the end of the manga seems to treat it as a transformation that can be switched on and off, except Z Movie 13

Prior to Super Hero Gohan seemed to be in the altered base state at all times, other than when he lost the fitness level to retain the potential unlock's benefits (or most of them) in RoF. The Super manga version of the ToP also treated Ultimate as a permanent form that only has differing levels of power utilized depending on the situation

Yes it's correct.

I have Base Gohan (DBS Hero/ Manga) more or less at the same level as Ultimate Gohan (Arc Moro), because Piccolo went from being a distant rival of Gohan, to being more or less at the same level as Gohan, despite having trained for 3 years.

 

[Hector]

SSJ Goku- 100
SSJ Vegeta- 100
SSJ Gohan- 90
Pseudo SSJ2 Gohan- 150
Dabura- 140
SSJ2 Vegeta (pre majin)- 200
SSJ2 Gohan (anger/full power)- 225
SSJ2 Goku- 250
Majin Vegeta- 250

 

[FeatsofPower]

I always figured that "Ultimate Gohan" was a separate state of being for Gohan. It brings out all of his dormant power to the surface in his normal state which enables him to power into the "mightiest of warriors". The way I see it is that fusing would only take into consideration of Gohan's ordinary base form and doesn't factor his power-up into the mightiest of warriors. After all, he has to consciously power into that state like Super Saiyans do.

As for the thread:

SSJ Goku: 100
SSJ Vegeta: 80
SSJ Gohan: 63
Dabura: 60

Hmm, I never thought about it like this and that's exactly what we see out Gohan in DBS Super Hero. So then Gohan would have a regular base state, which would be his Post Zeta Sword training level, which is the level that Goku and Gohan would be fusing at. Which makes things much more interesting.

Especially if you are comparing Goku/Gohan vs Goku/Vegeta. This way, it makes the fusion of Goku/Vegeta being the strongest, not that big of a deal, because the rivals boost can close that gap. Hmm... This sounds like a real option.

Rivals boost allowing Majin Vegeta level to surpass Ultimate Gohan level always seemed completely insane, but this angle really allows this to make a lot more sense.

And allows Base Vegetto to be quite strong, as the anime suggested. Hmmm... You got something here brother.

 

[Goku9001]

Hmm, I never thought about it like this and that's exactly what we see out Gohan in DBS Super Hero. So then Gohan would have a regular base state, which would be his Post Zeta Sword training level, which is the level that Goku and Gohan would be fusing at. Which makes things much more interesting.

Especially if you are comparing Goku/Gohan vs Goku/Vegeta. This way, it makes the fusion of Goku/Vegeta being the strongest, not that big of a deal, because the rivals boost can close that gap. Hmm... This sounds like a real option.

Rivals boost allowing Majin Vegeta level to surpass Ultimate Gohan level always seemed completely insane, but this angle really allows this to make a lot more sense.

And allows Base Vegetto to be quite strong, as the anime suggested. Hmmm... You got something here brother.

That's a great observation. I personally feel that it is the case because otherwise, Goku and Gohan logically shouldn't be able to fuse in the first place.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Our numbers seem to be perfect.

Goku 100
Kid Gohan 90
Vegeta 80
Teen Gohan 60
Cell 50

Has always seemed to be an awesome spacing.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I can see Goku being 1.5x Vegeta, but Vegeta vs Teen Gohan at 1.2x or 1.33x is fine.