Giant Slug and False SSjin Goku compared to Initial Final Form Freeza and Vegeta (Post Dende Zenkai)

[Pakl]

I've decided to share some of my wisdom with you so here we go. This time, I will show why Giant Slug was intended to be as strong as Initial Final Form Freeza (The one who kicked Vegeta's ass) and why False SSjin Goku was intended to be as strong as Vegeta (Post Dende Zenkai).

First, The movie villians seem to be as strong as the strongest villian shown in the manga three months prior to the movie's release. That's likey because the script for a movie takes a month and gets finished 3 months before the movie's release and TOEI starts the practical production from this same point as evident here.

Toriyama read the script for movie 8 before the chapter of Goku quitting vs Cell. That was 3 months prior to movie 8 release.

That's also stated by Takao Koyama himself:

How did you create the original stories for the theatrical movies?

When we made the episodes for the theatrical features, first the scriptwriter, the producer, and Toriyama-sensei‘s supervising editor would get together, and meet about story concepts, such as what to do about the main villain. Then I would put together a plot based on the content of what we’d talked about. I’d send that plot to Toriyama-sensei and get his opinion on it, then start writing out the scenario — that was the typical flow. Once I got to writing, I’d be joined at the hip with the producer.
With regards to the contents, there was the restriction that the movie “not progress into story settings further ahead than the TV anime at the time of its premiere”; for example, even if I’d decided to do fusion, I wouldn’t be allowed to do it ahead of the TV anime or the original manga.1 So I’d always be conscious of its state of progress on TV, and if we were doing the Freeza arc in the TV anime at the time of the premiere, a story would be born with the sense of, “Let’s bring out Freeza’s older brother!” Except, at times such as when the state of production on the TV anime caught up to the original work, it would be extremely tough with nothing to use as hints, and I received ideas directly from Toriyama-sensei.

It would take about three months’ time from the planning stage until the completion of a single movie’s scenario. Dragon Ball Z had two movies shown each year, in spring and summer, so that works out to me having been writing a theatrical movie scenario for over half a given year at the time. (laughs)

In short, it takes TOEI a month writing a script and then another almost 3 months to produce it.

The main thing that backs it up too is the fact that the movie villian is comparable to the strongest character shown in the manga three months before the movie's release, and 2-3 episodes later in the anime. 2 examples for that.

Movie 6 (Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors) Premiere Date: 7 March 1992

the strongest character shown at that time in the manga three months before was Android 18. This same chapter is also SSjin Vegeta fighting Android 18.

In the anime, Android 18 appears 2-3 episodes after the movie's release.

And we know that the general consensus is that Metal Coola is comparable to Android 18.

The next example is movie 7.

Movie 7 (Extreme Battle!! The Three Great Super Saiyans) Premiere Date: 11 July 1992

The strongest character shown in the manga three months prior movie 7's relesse was Imperfect Cell (post humans absorptions). This chapter has Cell kicking Kamiccolo's and 17's asses.

In the anime, Imperfect Cell (post humans absorbed) appears to fight Piccolo and 17 2-3 episodes after movie 7's release.

Now when we know the obvious formula, let's get to movie 4

Movie 4 (Super Saiyan Son Goku) Premiere Date: 09 March 1991

The last chapter released three months before the movie's release date was:

In this chapter, Frieza had transformed into his final form while Vegeta got a zenkai from Dende which is why you have this name for the chapter. So going by the obvious formula, Giant Slig ahould be comparable to Initial Final Form Freeza. In the anime, Initial Final Form Freeza appears 2-3 episodes after movie 4's release. Again same formula. But wait, this is not the end of it because we have even further evidence to support Giant Slug ~ Initial Final Form Freeza and False SSjin Goku ~ Vegeta (last zenkai).

Notice the name of the chapter? It's called "Birth of a Super Saiyan and Super Freeza"

The same way both Goku and Slug are called in movie 4.

Also, just to show the obvious that Movie 4 False SSjin Goku ~ "SSjin" Vegeta (final zenkai) was intended by TOEI, pay attention to the filler that was added by Toei when Vegeta powers up in the anime and how he is similiar to Movie 4 False SSjin Goku's power up.

Both are "False" SSjin before the real design for SSjin was made by Toriyama.

So for the cherry on the top, I will conclude it with this statement in movie 4

Notice this statement from Kaio? Now the stringest form of Freeza which was shown was his 3rd form in episode 82 preview just when movie 4 was released. You can see it here in this episodes previews

So let's compare it now

Unless I miss my guess, not even Freeza (3rd form Freeza) or perhaps a Super Saiyan [Movie 4 FSSjin Goku ("SSjin" Vegeta last zenkai)] can stand up to him! (him AKA Giant Slug who is as strong as Initial Final Form Freeza)

And that makes sense as both Movie 4 FSSjin Goku and Vegeta (last zenkai) could not stand up to Giant Slug or Initial Final Form Freeza respectively.

Giant Slug ~ Initial Final Form Freeza

Movie 4 False SSjin Goku ~ Vegeta (last zenkai)

Thank you!

But wait, one can argue that Movie 4 FSSjin Goku should be stronger than Vegeta (Last Zenkai) because the Daizenshuu states Goku is 3,000,000 while battling Freeza while Movie 4 FSSjin Goku should be 4,500,000 because 90,000 × 50= 4,500,000.

First, the battle power for Goku was likely given long after the the time of the Freeza Saga itself so it's not like Toei could of taken that into consideration.

Second, from a manga perspective, Goku being 3 million makes no sense going by the huge gaps the Freeza battle showed us.

Initial Final Form Freeza (serious) ~ Goku (Post Ginyu Zenkai) >> Vegeta (Post Dende Zenkai) > Final Form Freeza (Vegeta's expectations) >> 3rd form Freeza >> Piccolo

Take into an account that Piccolo without weights should be at the very least 1,500,000 if not more so. So 4,500,000 for Vegeta (Last Zenkai) seems perfect from a manga perspective.

Anyway, there is another issue to support it. Goku was stated to use the Kaioken x100 vs Slug probably because SSjin is 50x base and Slug was ahead of FSSjin Goku. Even though Goku never says "Kaioken x100" in the movie, it's stated he used Kaioken x100 in a guidebook.

What supports the Goku not known to have a battle power of 3,000,000 when he fought Freeza is a trailer for movie 4. In this trailer, Goku does say "Kaioken x100"

Pause in 1:50.

Why did TOEI removed this line from Goku? Well, you can argue because of the uncertainty of the gaps during the Freeza fight and maybe because they did not stick with the 50x multiplier for SSjin so... In any shape, it has no weight on the subject because all the points lead to opposite.

 

[Pakl]

@SSJ2
@Pyro
@Fantastische Hure
@GreatSaiyaman123
@SIAD
@Hector
@Captain Cadaver
@Diamond Ryan
@Future Warrior
@Soldierofficial
@Pocket-Gog~
@Kenshi
@Evil Vegeta

 

[SSJ2]

I pretty well agree with you on this, though I disagree with the comparison with Vegeta in filler. Yes, they did look similar, but you'd have to imply that Vegeta got a 50x multiplier in the filler if you truly wish to compare them.

 

[Pakl]

I pretty well agree with you on this, though I disagree with the comparison with Vegeta in filler. Yes, they did look similar, but you'd have to imply that Vegeta got a 50x multiplier in the filler if you truly wish to compare them.

That's not the point. Vegeta did not go from base to SSjin. I am saying that his power up in the anime was similiar to how False SSjin Goku looked as TOEI likely intended them to be the same level.

The only thing that can go against it is the whole Goku just being 3 million vs Freeza but this was also pretty much covered by me to why it's irrelevant.

 

[SSJ2]

That anime episode premiered well after the movie released though. If what you say about the script being finished ~3 months prior to the release is true, there's no way Vegeta's zenkai was even on their mind at that point. Vegeta isn't relevant to Goku's battle power. All we need to know is that Goku was 90,000 and we can go from there. Vegeta being 4,500,000 in the manga is not necessary.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Fake SSJ Goku >> Lord Slug though. Do you think Vegeta would've stomped Initial 4th form Freeza like that?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

 

[Pakl]

Bump because I like how my brain runs out and discovers new things.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think the comparions really fit 1 for 1 since Cooler is much stronger than even Mecha Freeza and Bojack clearly is nowhere near SPC, but it's close enough to fit Fake SSJ Goku being 4.5 million while Namek Goku peaks at 3 million for me.

 

[Dagon]

Your entire ethos, pathos, and logos regarding the movies is based on nerfing Broly because you disagree with Koyama's opinion about Broly being the strongest. You have to extend that to the rest of the movies to avoid being a hypocrite. Sorry, Koyama don't care.

LSSJ Broly > SSJ3 Vegetto >>>>> Metal Cooler > super Namek Piccolo > M6 SSJ Goku > M5 SSJ Goku > Kaio-Ken x 100 M4 Goku > Giant Lord Slug > False SSJ Goku Movie 4 > base Goku M5 > 100% Freeza > Young Lord Slug > Base Goku M4

You've talked to him before and you very well know he gives no fucks about your disagreement of the movie villains.

 

[Pakl]

Bump.