Goku reenacting his fight with his grandpa

[Future Warrior]

Shit, this is pretty damn cool.

[youtube]Ucs8S5pbPwc[/youtube]

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Wow, rare to see Super put in that much attention to detail. Got to give :toei some respect for that at least.

 

[PFM18]

another example that shows that super was actually good....

 

[Captain Cadaver]

another example that shows that super was actually good....

Good in some areas. A few successes don't make up for a mountain of flaws, however.

 

[PFM18]

another example that shows that super was actually good....

Good in some areas. A few successes don't make up for a mountain of flaws, however.

Well then it is nice that no such "mountain of flaws" exists then.

Are there flaws? Yes, of course. Do they outnumber the pros? Absolutely not.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

That was very touching indeed.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Are there flaws? Yes, of course. Do they outnumber the pros? Absolutely not.

The flaws certainly do outnumber the pros, both in quantity and impact on the quality; egregious plot holes, inconsistent characterisation, lack of repercussions, contrived power ups, etc.

I won't go further into it in this thread as to not derail it, though would be fine discussing it elsewhere, but I fail to see what positives Super brought that would mitigate its damage on the franchise's integrity.

 

[PFM18]

Are there flaws? Yes, of course. Do they outnumber the pros? Absolutely not.

The flaws certainly do outnumber the pros, both in quantity and impact on the quality; egregious plot holes, inconsistent characterisation, lack of repercussions, contrived power ups, etc.

I won't go further into it in this thread as to not derail it, though would be fine discussing it elsewhere, but I fail to see what positives Super brought that would mitigate its damage on the franchise's integrity.

I don't find the severity of Super's issues to be any higher than that of Z's. And the only "flaw" in your list that I find to be legitimate is the contrived power-ups, which is severely overrated.

This thread is dead i doubt going off track would be an issue

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't find the severity of Super's issues to be any higher than that of Z's. And the only "flaw" in your list that I find to be legitimate is the contrived power-ups, which is severely overrated.

Z indeed has many of these flaws, but to say that they were performed as detrimental as the same problems in Super would just be outright false, particularly artificial character regression/rewriting of which only very few examples can be found in Z. It would also be an absolutely false to say Z had a lack of repercussions when character dynamics and relationships were constantly changing through organic means and several aspects of the universe such as Earth's Dragon Balls/God or the Saiyan race's role in the galaxy changing. Meanwhile, Super actively limits its ability to do this by placing itself prior to the 28th TB, thus meaning we know what position the majority of the cast will be in as it goes on unless it goes into post-Z material soon (and having not done so already has already created such notable contradiction as Bulma having not seen Goku for 5 years by the end of Z or Vegeta being aware of Oob in the anime).
Moreover, saying that the same problems are present in Z doesn't bring the quality of Super up. All that does is perform the exact opposite for Z. A new addition of a franchise should focus on fixing problems that came before, not doubling-down on them.

I would be interested to see what you consider to be the positives that outweigh the problems, however, be it in quantity of impact.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

That sad Naruto music

 

[Papasmurf]

I would be interested to see what you consider to be the positives that outweigh the problems, however, be it in quantity of impact.

Tbf, it was pretty obvious plot holes were going to be rampant in Super as early as 2013 when things like keeping Bulma's age consistent and remembering which form had long hair were things that were beyond AT's memory, and he continued down that road with shit like 1.3 million and being unable to recall that Bulma didn't meet any of the villains on Namek sans Zarbon.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Tbf, it was pretty obvious plot holes were going to be rampant in Super as early as 2013 when things like keeping Bulma's age consistent and remembering which form had long hair were things that were beyond AT's memory, and he continued down that road with shit like 1.3 million and being unable to recall that Bulma didn't meet any of the villains on Namek sans Zarbon.

Indeed, though that just makes it even more difficult to defend Super when even in premise it was fundamentally broken.
I will say that Bulma's statements about the Freeza Arc at least make sense in the anime continuity where even the Kai anime retains the Ginyu filler.

 

[Papasmurf]

Tbf, it was pretty obvious plot holes were going to be rampant in Super as early as 2013 when things like keeping Bulma's age consistent and remembering which form had long hair were things that were beyond AT's memory, and he continued down that road with shit like 1.3 million and being unable to recall that Bulma didn't meet any of the villains on Namek sans Zarbon.

Indeed, though that just makes it even more difficult to defend Super when even in premise it was fundamentally broken.
I will say that Bulma's statements about the Freeza Arc at least make sense in the anime continuity where even the Kai anime retains the Ginyu filler.

In Toriyama's earlier draft of FnF Bulma was going to be able to recognize Freeza (and vice versa) despite them never having met (seeing as Freeza was quickly killed by Trunks before he interacted with anybody on Earth). That was what I was referring to.

 

[Warmmedown]

That's cool. Too bad the rest of his character (and Gohan's) are broken. edit: And even Vegeta's.

Props to whoever spotted this though. I'm guessing Super didn't make it obvious.