Goku vs Ginyu Finally Figured out

[p123]

Ok, Ahill, present the fight and discussion will begin.

 

[ahill1]

Spoiler

That's pretty much the entire fight.

 

[p123]

Round 1- Goku is distracted by Vegeta abruptly leaving his ass for dead, and Ginyu capitalizes on the opening. Goku quickly recovers and returns fire, Ginyu's facial expression to Goku's kick is interesting.

I think they are basically equals, if anyone is slightly superior, it's probably Ginyu. I agree with your analysis Ahill, he estimated Goku and decided to come after him with a power superior to 60k to give himself a slight advantage only to find out that Goku is on that level. In my expert analysis this is what I think.


Ginyu 66,000
Goku 65,000
Ginyu Estimates Goku to be 60,000

Now we can debate what Ginyu meant by Goku being "better than he thought". For me it's simple, he thought he was 60k, after fighting him, he realizes he's even stronger.

Let's get Japanese anime quote as well as Herms quote if possible. Let's knock down Round 1 and move on after this is done.

 

[SSJ2]

In the second round when Ginyu flares his aura, I'd say he has an ever so slight advantage due to facial expressions. He looks to be exerting less effort, whereas Goku is putting in all he has for that effort level.

 

[p123]

Damn, look at the context.

After Round 1...

1) Goku says damn, I am in a rush, I will have to beat you quickly.
2) Ginyu says welp, I can power up too.

Why would this not be contested at a higher level than Round 1? There is definitely a power up there... Goku and Ginyu are both fighting at a higher level for sure imo.

60-90 won't cut it for my tastes. I need more space.

Also, Vegeta treated Goku as a God, there should be some huge spacing here.

I wonder if Vegeta calculated their current power or if he could sense even more? I think he only senses Round 1...

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta seemed to forget Goku had Kaioken there which I find odd. He estimates Goku and Ginyu would be equal at full power.

 

[p123]

Wrong.

Goku can't even tell Ginyu has more in the bank, Vegeta is talking about Round 1 levels only.

 

[ahill1]

Or maybe Vegeta was considering Kaioken x2 Goku and full power Ginyu? If Vegeta assumes Goku's base power was the one he showed vs the Ginyus (which was slightly above 60k), then his Kaioken x2 power would end up at ~120k.

 

[p123]

Absolutely not. Vegeta has completely forgotten about Kaioken and he thinks Round 1 is their full power.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Round 1
Ginyu- 65k
Goku- 65k

Round 2
Ginyu- 75k
Goku- 70k

 

[p123]

Goku says he will finish things off quickly. Wouldn't it make sense for Ginyu to power up to a level that can finish his prior self off quickly? I think 75 isn't enough. And Goku at 70 doesn't make sense, he won't be finishing off Ginyu quickly at that level.

 

[ahill1]

Goku at 75k could make sense, but then he would be too close to 85k

 

[p123]

Exactly. AT's numbers are garbage here.

 

[ahill1]

The reserves being as big as a whooping 1.5x gap would make even more sense here. Was there any moment when a character was hiding his strength to fight a stronger opponent? Which instance? I imagine the power hidden was pretty big.

 

[p123]

Interesting. Why does Goku consider Kaioken his full power here? Very odd. Why does he jump to 180k right off the bat?

There has to be a reason why Goku forgoes his true base power. Specifically because Ginyu is able to estimate nearly correctly with accuracy. So whatever Goku did with his speed, perhaps that ticked him off to his true power. I don't think the true power is massive if Ginyu can deduce that...

 

[ahill1]

But we can only tell if Ginyu's estimation was accurate or not when going with the scouter numbers.

 

[p123]

That's where your wrong.

Goku's Base Power >= Ginyu's Estimation on Goku's True Power > Ginyu Powered Up >>= Goku Powered Up > Ginyu Initial >= Goku Initial > Ginyu's Estimate on Goku's power

Is the correct chain to apply to your own set of numbers.

The actual numbers themselves are arbitrary.

 

[ahill1]

I see. It makes sense. So you think Goku's reserves weren't too big, since Ginyu could estimate it with accuracy?

 

[p123]

Well it's what I'm thinking right now. This is your problem. Your rely way too much on regurgitating information and not enough time absorbing concepts so you can create your own information.

 

[ahill1]

I am just saying the reserves seems big to me. If he is hiding his strength to fight Freeza, then I can't imagine it being a puny power up. Freeza also estimated with accuracy how powerful Goku could become, and he became literally 10x stronger, so it doesn't mean much.