Guidelines for Tanking Gaps

[Victorious]

I can't even believe there's a 'top debater thread' on here and me and P123 are not in the list..that's crazy. I guess we must be getting old. But it's understandable....i havent been doing DBZ online at all for like a year...and not very much in like 3 years..and not hardcore since like 5 years ago.

FYI. This whole Tanking gaps stuff itself was first created by Cooler, P123, and I.

 

[Pyro]

I can't even believe there's a 'top debater thread' on here and me and P123 are not in the list..that's crazy. I guess we must be getting old. But it's understandable....i havent been doing DBZ online at all for like a year...and not very much in like 3 years..and not hardcore since like 5 years ago.

FYI. This whole Tanking gaps stuff itself was first created by Cooler, P123, and I.

It was mostly for people that were here at the time.

 

[p123]

HOOOHOOOO Big VIC back in the house! I have actually been coming on here pretty consistent for the last month, I was hoping I'd see you again. We actually have some new things we have been discovering, I'm excited to catch you up to speed.

Yea, we have been become old in this world and no one remembers us now. Funny how things are. Sometimes I get links to our old threads on Neo and I'm amazed at how good we were back then. We started a revolution in this world.

 

[ahill1]

#16 vs Semi Cell - 40%
Perfect Cell vs SSJ2 kid Gohan - 50%
#19 vs Vegeta SSJ - 60%
Semi Cell vs SSJG2 Vegeta - 66%

Does it sound okay?

 

[p123]

That's what I was going with, actually that's exactly what I would go with. Your mind thinks just like mine, but when I applied divergent thinking to that, it became potentially problematic. Now, take some time and try to figure out why those gaps could potentially be problematic. I want to see your problem solving ability.

 

[ahill1]

I don't see why these gaps could be problematic. Why do you think so?

 

[p123]

I'll be on later to discuss. Try to find a flaw in it, you should be able to find it eventually.

 

[ahill1]

The only flaw I can think of when following those gaps are:

1- It would be a bit hard to not have the base Saiyans hugely surpassing the androids #17 and #18;
2- The USSJ boost would be something rather large, like 2x or so, which would cause some contradictions.

 

[p123]

Alright, alright. I won't leave you is suspense. I don't want you racking your brain trying to read my mind. I'll give you a nice hint.

1) 40% of 50 is 80%
2) 50% of 60 is 83%
3) 60% of 60 is 90%

It's easy to look at is like 66>60>50>40. But then, when you think about just how much that actually widens the gap, it becomes pretty insane.

The difference between 40 and 50 is huge. So you are saying that Cell's tank on 16 is so much more impressive than Cell's tank on Vegeta, he can nearly tank a whole nother character than the other?

That's a little rough.

Think about this way...


Fighter A is 100
Fighter B is 125

So are you telling me that the difference between Fighter A and Fighter B's tank on the same character, that they can tank on tank on tank?

Meh, I don't know how to explain this shit. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Is there really a need for a 66% difference between what Cell did to 16 and what Vegeta did to 19? That's like, a whole nother tank right in the middle of those two tanks.

Damn, hopefully you understand some of that in this mess of shit haha/.

 

[ahill1]

Yes, I get what you are saying. I don't exactly know how to reply to it.

But like you can see, I let a 1.1x gap between the way Vegeta tanked #19 and the way Vegeta tanked Semi Cell. Those tanks weren't so much more impressive than each other, so I basically let a "small" gap between them.

Now for Semi Cell vs #16 and Gohan vs Perfect Cell... that was a rather different tank. Semi Cell's tanks seemed like on a different plane, so I chose to put a considerable space between them, which was 1.25x. Same with #19 vs Vegeta to Cell vs Gohan, though the difference between those two seemed less pronunciated than Semi Cell vs #16 and Gohan vs Cell, so I opted for a smaller gap... between the gaps lol.

I think that line of thought is more sane than saying a 55% gap and a 60% gap will allow such differences into the tanks, don't you?

 

[p123]

So... You really think this?

Fighter A 110
Fighter B 100
Fighter C 60


You really think Vegeta vs Semi Cell gap is that much smaller that Fighter A would basically manhandle Fighter B? I don't agree with that. In fact, you are wrong. Let me tell you why.

There is no difference between Vegeta's tanks on Semi Cell and 19. It's basically the same thing, when you take into account all angles. You could argue for either one being superior, but they should be relatively close.

Now let me tell you why that you view it the way you do. The fights. Vegeta kicks the ever living shit out of 19, whereas with Cell, it's not nearly as bad. Here's why your interpretation is wrong on that as well. Vegeta vs Semi Cell (Initial). BOOM

 

[ahill1]

I have a 1.1x difference between Vegeta and 19 and Vegeta and Semi Cell. Like I said, the tanks weren't too much different. But like you also said, we have to take the entire fight into account to, whereas Vegeta seemed more dominant against #19. #19 lost a lot of power after Vegeta's beating, while it seems Semi Cell was relatively fine after it. Tough to go solely with the tank when the fights are portryed differently.

 

[p123]

The tank should have priority over the fight imo. Vegeta clearly is holding back a shit ton on Semi Cell, even though his facial expressions do not show it. I think Grade 2 has strain and causes his movements to be stressful. But it's without a doubt that Vegeta was holding back a shit ton against Semi Cell whereas against 19, not so much. He is holding back majorly in both cases though. If this was Namek Vegeta, they would both be eliminated in seconds. Vegeta on Namek went so fucking hard, just brutal.

 

[ahill1]

Why do u think Vegeta was holding back?

 

[p123]

How did he not one shot Semi Cell (Initial). Semi Cell is stated to do a huge power up, yet Semi Cell (Initial) vs Vegeta and Semi Cell (FP) vs Vegeta look nearly identical. If Vegeta was using the same effort for both, clearly Semi Cell (Initial) would be quickly KO'd. So Vegeta in fact, was holding back, yet making poop faces anyway. Hence, Grade 2 strain theory was born.

 

[ahill1]

Well, one-shot gaps aren't exactly linears. There are a plethola of examples where a opponent should one-shot the other one and it didn't end up happening, like Freeza 50% not one shotting a tired base Goku.

 

[p123]

Sure, that's fine. But damage, destructive force, etc. are major factors. We know Vegeta held back on Initial Semi Cell, why wouldn't he be holding back on Semi Cell FP?

 

[ahill1]

Well, he doesn't have to keep holding back against full power Semi Cell. I am sure initial Semi Cell also felt pain with Vegeta's attacks.

 

[p123]

He didn't have to hold back against Semi Cell Initial power. He even thought Cell was going all out when he states "I thought we were fighting" when Cell says oh do you really want to see me try?

 

[KyuubiAhri]

I don't think that tanking means anything in vegeta's case.Hi's fight with 19 shows 75/100 gap because 19 drew blood.But piccolo,who is at most 80% of vegeta effortlessly beat 20 who is marginally stronger than 19.Plus,vegeta is confident that he can beat 16,17,18 knowing that they are much stronger than 19.it's at least 2x gap regardless of what the tanking feats show us
Vegeta-Semi cell gap has to be massive because vegeta was confident that he can beat cell when he achieves perfection.
16 is 60% of semi cell because cell showed slight discomfort when 16 punched him