Hector's Saiyan Saga PLs

[Power Level Guy]

@Power Level Guy isn’t CG Gohan the only case of someone weakened firing a blast at FP?

No, there’s a bunch of cases.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No, there’s a bunch of cases.

Elaborate.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Elaborate.

Every saga has showcased an injured fighter fire off a full power blast, which would typically make you think that the blast wasn't full powered, yet no evidence exists is shouldn't be.

How about this, how many sagas can you name where this doesn't occur? From my understanding, it's most sagas.

 

[Piramid89]

Gohan feels like he can't win against SPC because he has less than half of his ki left. At no point does Goku tell him he can still fire a KKH at 100%. Instead, Goku believes that even with less than half of his power, Gohan is still superior.


Then, Gohan fires a KKH with less than half of his full power, and on top of that, he holds back out of fear of destroying the Earth. Even Piccolo says Gohan’s KKH is weaker. Gohan was probably using around 30% of his FP at that moment. The final explosion that kills SPC was likely around 40-45% of his FP.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Every saga has showcased an injured fighter fire off a full power blast, which would typically make you think that the blast wasn't full powered, yet no evidence exists is shouldn't be.

How about this, how many sagas can you name where this doesn't occur? From my understanding, it's most sagas.

It’s a case by case basis. But on Tenshinhan’s case yeah, that was his absolute best. He died from it.

Gohan feels like he can't win against SPC because he has less than half of his ki left. At no point does Goku tell him he can still fire a KKH at 100%. Instead, Goku believes that even with less than half of his power, Gohan is still superior.


Then, Gohan fires a KKH with less than half of his full power, and on top of that, he holds back out of fear of destroying the Earth. Even Piccolo says Gohan’s KKH is weaker. Gohan was probably using around 30% of his FP at that moment. The final explosion that kills SPC was likely around 40-45% of his FP.

You got it all wrong. It’s not that Gohan was at ~40% and held back further, he was weakened solely because he was holding back. Goku asked Gohan to fire a Kamehameha at full power and to show him all his power, not half of it.

 

[Piramid89]

Goku asked Gohan to fire a Kamehameha at full power and to show him all his power

Goku tells him to use all the power he has left, his full power at that moment, saying that this will be enough to win. Gohan had just said that he had less than half of his ki left and didn’t think it would be enough to surpass Cell. Otherwise, we’d have to assume that Gohan doesn’t understand how ki and energy attacks work.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

Goku tells him to use all the power he has left, his full power at that moment, saying that this will be enough to win. Gohan had just said that he had less than half of his ki left and didn’t think it would be enough to surpass Cell. Otherwise, we’d have to assume that Gohan doesn’t understand how ki and energy attacks work.

Gohan at that point had gone through a lot, but his major concern making him hold back was him own fear of making the Earth get damaged, which's why he's acting like that.

Goku when saying him "believe on your own power!" basically's making Gohan know he can do greater things that he thinks off and have more power than what he can believe. This and how him emphasize on Goku telling Gohan "Show me one last time…The power we created together!" which basically makes it seem as if Gohan with willigness can still show his true power, but have to put effort on it.

 

[Piramid89]

Gohan at that point had gone through a lot, but his major concern making him hold back was him own fear of making the Earth get damaged, which's why he's acting like that.

Goku when saying him "believe on your own power!" basically's making Gohan know he can do greater things that he thinks off and have more power than what he can believe. This and how him emphasize on Goku telling Gohan "Show me one last time…The power we created together!" which basically makes it seem as if Gohan with willigness can still show his true power, but have to put effort on it.

What’s clear is that he can't use 100% of the power he had when he wasn't injured. Gohan confirms that it doesn’t work that way by saying he won’t be able to beat Cell because he lost energy. Now, if you want to think that Gohan actually didn’t lose any energy and it was all in his mind, that’s another story, but at least in this part of the manga, ki attacks work this way.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s a case by case basis. But on Tenshinhan’s case yeah, that was his absolute best. He died from it.

It’s at least half what I’m saying. Full power blasts largely can be done at any time.

You got it all wrong. It’s not that Gohan was at ~40% and held back further, he was weakened solely because he was holding back. Goku asked Gohan to fire a Kamehameha at full power and to show him all his power, not half of it.

Gohan was always at 40%.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It’s at least half what I’m saying. Full power blasts largely can be done at any time.



Gohan was always at 40%.

Why does Gohan think he can’t beat Cell after being injured?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why does Gohan think he can’t beat Cell after being injured?

Because he’s injured and at less than half power.

Are you making the claim that Gohan gets it done in a hand to hand battle?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Because he’s injured and at less than half power.

Are you making the claim that Gohan gets it done in a hand to hand battle?

So it does affect his Kamehameha then?

I’m making questions, not claims.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So it does affect his Kamehameha then?

It shouldn’t. The only reason Gohan’s Kamehameha is smaller initially is because he’s holding back.

Hmm….

Show me the power we built together one more time.

That definitely seems like Goku thinks he can power up again…

but Goku’s whole monologue is that Gohan is holding back. Hmm….

It’s tough…

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The point is, Gohan thinks be can’t kill Cell because he’s weakened, and indeed he’s losing the beam struggle before Goku gets him back to FP.

I think he can still put out his FP but it’s way more taxing, so he just does 1 burst and loses the form. Making Gohan revert to base instead of MSSJ shows he’s totally done. This beam struggle alone could be broken down in multiple levels of power, effort and stamina.

 

[Power Level Guy]

The point is, Gohan thinks be can’t kill Cell because he’s weakened, and indeed he’s losing the beam struggle before Goku gets him back to FP.

Why does his body need to return to FP? Why not just his Kamehameha?

Why would Vegeta be able to do it with his BBA against 19 and not Gohan with his Kamehameha against Cell?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why does his body need to return to FP? Why not just his Kamehameha?

Why would Vegeta be able to do it with his BBA against 19 and not Gohan with his Kamehameha against Cell?

It’s not the body, it’s his Ki which is in his body. I think the fact it’s a Kamehameha allowed him to tap into FP easier since it’s external to his broken body, but his body is the source nonetheless.

Think of Gohan’s body as a water tank, the Kamehameha as a tap and his Ki the water. A cracked water tank can’t hold so much water, but you can still release all the water via the tap before the tank breaks.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s not the body, it’s his Ki which is in his body. I think the fact it’s a Kamehameha allowed him to tap into FP easier since it’s external to his broken body, but his body is the source nonetheless.

I think that Gohan being off the bat competitive proves he didn’t gain any new power. He was always capable of making a competitive Kamehameha but he let his injury trick him into thinking he couldn’t win.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think that Gohan being off the bat competitive proves he didn’t gain any new power. He was always capable of making a competitive Kamehameha but he let his injury trick him into thinking he couldn’t win.

But if that really were his full power, he’d have killed Cell right away. Literally everyone but Goku thinks Gohan won’t stand a chance because of his injury.

 

[Power Level Guy]

But if that really were his full power, he’d have killed Cell right away. Literally everyone but Goku thinks Gohan won’t stand a chance because of his injury.

Perhaps only Goku knows Gohan's Kamehameha capability because he trained him?

It's very normal to assume that a much weaker fighter will lose. Are you saying Gohan is at 40% the instant he fires the Kamehameha or not?

 

[Piramid89]

The important thing is that no one doubts how ki attacks work: if you're weakened, you can't launch a ki attack as powerful. Gohan has no reason to be wrong about how ki attacks work. Neither does Piccolo. Goku never contradicts him but thinks Gohan is holding back out of fear of damaging the Earth.

If we want to prove that Gohan, despite being injured, could fire a KKH as if he weren’t, we need to explain why he thought he couldn't.