Hit (Manga) vs Bills (vs Super-Saiyan God Goku)

Fantastische Hure

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That I can agree with, even-though I don't mind Hax training gains as long as they are explained. Piccolo's one is the one that seems most weird to me though, because it was clearly implied he hit his limit a long time ago, but I'm fine with even that because at-least they said he was training for it.
 

Papasmurf

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I think hax training gains are fine, but it's the way they just throw it in that makes them retarded. A show is boring if everyone is absolutely useless except for the main character and all (which is a large reason why GT/FNF/etc. were such horrible failures), so I don't mind people gaining ridiculous increases to catch up, but if it looks like they had the option of doing that and they just basically sat on their asses not taking that option to remain weak for as long as the plot didn't demand them to be strong, that's a problem. Freeza basically couldn't be arsed to train for 3 days to surpass Goku despite losing most of his body in the battle and being spared, and Piccolo could train for like 5 months and catch up to the God Saiyans' base forms and then some, but just sat on his ass after the Cell Games doing menial training and stuff. All of that just makes the boosts seem inconsistent and spontaneous, only being thrown in as poor explanations when the author couldn't think of new characters to shine so he brought back old ones with super astronomical increases saying they trained off-screen.

Just extremely poor creativity and consistency really, even if Toriyama's said he stopped giving a shit about that during the Freeza movie :1down
 

Fantastische Hure

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Yeah, looking back Piccolo said Goten and Trunks were their only hope left against Super-Boo, when he could have just went into the RoSaT himself. :king :king :king

But maybe he learned a new training method that helped him become so much stronger. :troll :troll :troll
 

Papasmurf

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Yeah, it's like training with Gohan caused him to strip Gohan of his Ultimate potential unlock, after which he used Gohan as a punching bag to repeatedly surpass his limits, then get more unlocks for the course of their training for half a year so he could catch up to plot-relevant levels :troll :troll2 :troll2
 

Fantastische Hure

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BTW, I kind-of suck at reading manga or looking at images in there because I can't really tell what's happening but is it just me or did Frost do better against Super-Saiyan Goku in the manga than he did in the anime?

Also Piccolo didn't go for Makankosappo in the manga. Piccolo was willing to fight without that and still put-up a feat fight as noted by Goku.
 

Papasmurf

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Yeah, Frost still lost in the manga but he at least put up a slight fight in the manga whereas in the anime he was almost KOd after like 3 punches and just managed to prick Goku with his needle by tricking him into blocking a desperate punch.

The manga version lacking Makankosappo makes sense, Toriyama seems to have forgotten about that move after the Saiyan arc after all :troll
 

Fantastische Hure

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Yeah, I prefer that in the manga. The anime really doesn't make that much sense, if Piccolo can already evade Frost like that and almost fight evenly with him, why doesn't he try that? Maybe he was scared that he'd use the (at that time Unknown) needle he used to defeat Goku.

Would you say there's difference between the Manga and Anime Base Saiyans and all their powers (besides the obvious differences)?
 

Papasmurf

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I'm honestly not sure, as the base Saiyans have largely the same feats, like fighting evenly with Cabba pre-SSJ and Goku using base form for a while before transforming. If we were to assume Frost's power level is the same in both incarnations I guess the anime version's base Saiyans would be stronger since SSJ Goku (anime) is >>> 4th form Frost while in the manga he's more like 20-30% ahead of him.
 

Fantastische Hure

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I might even say Frost is a bit closer. Goku didn't seem to be taking it easy and was putting in his full-effort, maybe in a similar way to Namek Saga Goku vs 100% Freeza, just way shorter but then again Frost didn't get one hit on him.
 

Papasmurf

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I think Goku was probably taking it easy against Frost somewhat since Piccolo and Vegeta said he got carried away and let his guard down, and he had 3 opponents left after Frost so he probably didn't want to go all out yet.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Papasmurf said:
I think Goku was probably taking it easy against Frost somewhat since Piccolo and Vegeta said he got carried away and let his guard down, and he had 3 opponents left after Frost so he probably didn't want to go all out yet.
Kind-of true, but couldn't that refer to Goku's other forms, too?

By the end of the fight when Goku had Frost down, he seemed relaxed again so maybe that's where he let his guard down. When they were fighting at the beginning seemed more serious and taxing.
 

Papasmurf

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proxy


They outright said Goku was toying with his opponent and he had expressions like

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in the midst of battle, so I think if Goku fought harder he'd have won easily, just like Vegeta easily defeated him without giving him the chance to use his needle
 

Papasmurf

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He remembers the ray gun scene with Freeza all too well and got intimidated :troll :troll :troll
 

Spiral-Force

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Beerus should take this because of Hit's poor stamina.
 

Keedounan

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Spiral-Force said:
Beerus should take this because of Hit's poor stamina.

Why do people keep bringing up his "low stamina" ? Did I miss something ?
 

Spiral-Force

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Venato said:
Why do people keep bringing up his "low stamina" ? Did I miss something ?
Against Goku, Hit indicated that he could only maintain his full power for a minute due to not using it in such a long time. Check out the scan Kenshi posted in page 1.
 

Keedounan

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Spiral-Force said:
Venato said:
Why do people keep bringing up his "low stamina" ? Did I miss something ?
Against Goku, Hit indicated that he could only maintain his full power for a minute due to not using it in such a long time. Check out the scan Kenshi posted in page 1.

Wow. His stamina is even worse than Freeza's ! That said, it was enough to force Goku to use his SSJB, and he could dodge his Kamehaleha. It's more than SSJG Goku at BoG period (and by extension, Beerus) could handle in my opinion.
 

Super Neko Majin Z

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Hit could only time-skip once at full power. If he doesn't one-shot, he's fucked by his own circumcised head.
 

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