How do SNs compare to Yonko Commanders

[Future Warrior]

Barring Luffy. Guys like Zoro, Kid, and Law.

 

[SSJ2]

Not very close. Kid managed to injure a Sweet Commander and Urouge defeated the weakest one in Snack. The rest of them have pretty well nothing going for them. Drake was a member of the Flying 6, and it's pretty clear they don't measure up to Kaido's Calamities. Bonney, Apoo, Hawkins and Bege all seem pretty weak.

There's a pretty big gap shown between the weakest commanders and the strongest. If they can't even measure up to the likes of Cracker or Jack, they aren't coming close to the top commanders like Beckman and Marco.

 

[Future Warrior]

No I meant including Zoro, Kid, and Law. I don’t really care for the other SNs.

 

[SSJ2]

Oh lol I thought you said barring all of those guys.

It's really hard to say at this moment. It sounds illogical, but I'm inclined to say that they've all been surpassed with exception of Ben Beckman and Marco. Katakuri was surpassed by Luffy in WCI, and we know that Luffy powered up massively since then by learning two new advancements of Busoshoku. He was still unable to do anything significant to Kaido. Zoro was able to scar Kaido with Asura, albeit not nearly as badly as Oden did (who managed to take out Kaido with that attack). Zoro is probably on Marco's level now at his best, possibly even above it with Asura. Marco made it clear that he could only stall Big Mom at best, we never saw him being capable of wounding her. Zoro wounded Hybrid Kaido..

KId and Law are harder to judge. I'm inclined to think Kid at the very least has surpassed them all given that he's now about to fight Big Mom 1v1. I doubt that fight is being set up so he can be one shotted.. Even if he loses, he should still be at least on that level to seriously want to challenge a Yonko.

Law was portrayed as weaker given his reliance on his abilities and the fact that he was used in a support role more than combat. Though considering his abilities could even shake up Kaido somewhat, they'd almost certainly be effective on the likes of Katakuri at this point. He might be around that level.

 

[Future Warrior]

I think Luffy surpassing Katakuri during WCI is a bit of an exaggeration. He had higher endurance and stamina which made Katakuri withdraw the fight. I think any other opponent on Luffy's level would have lost. This is a bit controversial but I'm starting to think Marco is on even ground with Katakuri. Their both top commanders and the latter was regarding as never losing a fight once.

 

[SSJ2]

Well I'd say that qualifies as surpassing him even if he started out far inferior. Luffy grew during that fight similar to how Saiyans supposedly grow when facing a tougher opponent. By the end of it he was able to keep up with him and earn the win. He didn't surpass him massively, but when you factor in the "zenkai" he always gets after his toughest battles, he should be above that level post-WCI. His efforts were enough to earn him the title of the 5th Yonko from Morgans, which regardless of how he stood against the Yonko, it makes it pretty clear he's above the level of Commander.

Katakuri never lost, but do we know who he's fought? Big Mom stated that she hadn't seen Kaido in decades when she arrived in Wano, so it sounds as though the Yonko don't have disputes often. Maybe Katakuri never fought someone as strong as Marco.

 

[Future Warrior]

Even during Snakeman, Katakuri still had stronger CoA to cause Luffy's fist in pain. Luffy just kept getting back up from the damage. For all intentes and purposes you can say Luffy was on par with Katakuri by the end of the fight but the latter still had the edge in terms of power, speed, and Haki.

I do agree though that Luffy surpassed Katakuri during Onigashima but it wouldn't be anything less than an extreme diff fight imo. He would probably extreme diff Marco too imo.

 

[SSJ2]

Well, couldn't you say that Luffy had greater Haki by the end of the fight based on the fact that his willpower gave him the win? I don't remember the fight all that well honestly.

The only reason I think Katakuri has been greatly surpassed is due to Luffy gaining level 3 Busoshoku. Luffy thought he could beat Kaido upon landing in Wano, and then after his embarrassing defeat was confident level 3 Busoshoku would give him the win. That implies a massive difference between the Haki used vs Katakuri compared to what he uses now. I doubt Katakuri could last long against Luffy if even Kaido is choosing to dodge his Busoshoku attacks now.

 

[Future Warrior]

Agree to disagree I guess.

How do you think would win between Kid and Zoro? Also where would Killer be?

 

[SSJ2]

I don't know if we entirely disagree. I'm curious to hear your understanding of the boost that level 3 would give Luffy in comparison to Katakuri. You don't think it would be significant?

I'd give it to Kid purely based on his hype from the last chapter. Zoro could only hang with Kaido for one attack, and Kid will need to do better than that if he's going to fight Big Mom solo.

 

[Future Warrior]

My logic is that Luffy's victory over Katakuri was more so a psychological factor than simply overpowering him. That's where we disagree on, in that Luffy hasn't surpassed Katakuri back in WCI. I do agree that Luffy would overpower him after Udon in a fight.

 

[SSJ2]

Do you agree that he became at least equal to Katakuri post WCI? I don't think we disagree entirely then. I think Luffy caught up to him when they were fighting through his superior willpower. He'd be slightly above him after healing.

 

[Future Warrior]

Maybe in the beginning of Wano he’d be at most equal.
The thing is that we haven’t seen Level 3 against opponents other than Kaido from my knowledge. Maybe the damage would be extremely high towards closely powered opponents, idk.

 

[Future Warrior]

@Super Saiyan

How do you think Zoro would fare against Vista?

 

[SSJ2]

I think he'd beat Vista with extreme difficulty now. Vista, Jozu and Marco all seemed to be on a different level compared to everyone else. Vista fought an unserious Mihawk but was given respect and could clearly hang with him. Marco and Jozu were both fighting Admirals 1v1 and only lost to them when they were distracted by WB's heart attack. I think all of those 3 are a level below the Admirals. Zoro must be around there if he can damage Kaido and tank a combined attack from 2 Yonko.

 

[Future Warrior]

It's not unreasonable to say Marco, Jozu, and Vista are all similar right? I don't remember if it's ever explicitly said he was WB's top commander. It's possible all 3 excel in different areas.

Jozu - Strength
Marco - Regen
Vista - Skill

 

[SSJ2]

Yea I think the implication was that they were all around the same level. And I'd agree with that assessment. Marco comes out on top due to being most balanced and having regen.

 

[Future Warrior]

I see some people put Marco on this pedestal because he was portrayed as being competent against the Admirals in a one on one fight. I don't see how it's any different to Vista being able to hang with Mihawk or Jozu against Aokiji.

 

[SSJ2]

If anything the implication was that he and Jozu were the same. Whitebeard was charging in to save Ace and those two were the ones who stepped up to stop the Admirals (Vista was fighting Mihawk I believe). Jozu made Aokiji bleed with one attack. Oda then made it very clear that both of them needed to be distracted in order to be defeated by the Admirals. It seemed very clear to me upon rereading it.

 

[Future Warrior]

The only thing I'm unsure about is how Doflamingo compares. He was able to easily stop Jozu in his tracks.