How does Goku=10 and somewhat strong adult human=5 work?

Warmmedown

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Yeah, I think we are capable of doing that. It's easy to tell that a much bigger fighter is probably going to squash a much smaller one.

These kinds of expectations happen all the time in real life, no need for ki-sensing.
I dunno man. Does a crocodile beat an elephant? Does a lion beat a grizzly? Does a cobra beat a wolf? These aren't questions the average person knows the answer to. If I saw a hunter-gatherer kill one animal from those pairs, I wouldn't be sure they can kill the other. And wasn't the pterodon bigger than the bear?
Bulma thinking one is stronger than the other isn't proof. It's "easy to tell", which makes no sense when we know Nappa is stronger than Vegeta or IRL a bulldog is able to easily kill a human.
You're saying A is stronger than B because Bulma thinks A is stronger than B. I'm saying there's no reason to think Bulma KNOWS (not just believes) A is stronger than B. Then you're saying she knows because it's obvious A is stronger than B based on size, thereby she would KNOW (not just believe) that A is stronger than B. But we have no evidence she would KNOW A is stronger than B due to the strength indicator of size, since we know that 1. Exceptions to that rule exist in DB and (less importantly) 2. Exceptions to that rule exist IRL.
 

Warmmedown

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It's battle powers, scouter from aliens... Who knows what is 2x stronger for them. Irl we wouldn't be able to give someone a number, like, hmm his strength is an 8. If you hear something like that it sounds more like a general rating, like "good, very good, but not perfect". Like the trend nowadays that elite fighters rate the other one from 1 to 10... It's just a basic how good and likely to win in a 1 vs 1 this fighter is.

There is a physical way to know how stronger someone's punch is than the other I guess. In DB there was a kind of punching machine in the 25th Budokai, there Mr. Satan would score more than double normal humans iirc. Way more than double actually since those other guys punching were pro fighters. Punching power = force or impulse generated when the punch lands.

F = ma (mass of the arm/fist times acceleration)
There is also momentum which is a relevant metric

Momentum = mass x velocity

Kinetic energy too, which is iirc mv²/2 ... Which would be like the energy delivered by the punch, in that case taking techniques, like proper stance, body rotation etc. into account.

Ngannou scored a ~ 129.2 units on a PowerKube, a device from the UFC PI that measures force, speed and energy, turning that into a number representative of his punching power. Ngannou's punching power can be Over 8,000!!!! Newtons of force depending on the set up. An average male's punching power, while it varies significantly, is estimated around 1,000 ~ 1,500 N ... With a kinetic energy of 120 ~ 160 Joules.

Let's assume the over 8,000!!! for Ngannou is like 9,000 N and the average male punching power is ~ 1,200 N. Roughly, 8x stronger. Going by kinetic energy instead, assuming Ngannou's would be ~ 1,200 Joules and the average male, like 150 Joules... Again, roughly 8x stronger.

Still, there are ways to measure the raw strength of a punch in which you'd find the difference shrinking down a lot between Ngannou and a normal human. Studies appear to show that fist velocities don't vary THAT much between trained fighters and untrained individuals... It's like, a trained pro fighter can generate a speed ranging around 9 m/s ~ 11m/s ... An untrained person, would generate, a very rough average since it's tough to have a precise range, 6 ~ 8 m/s (average male fist speed)... Small increase in speeds lead to a big difference since kinetic energy depends on v²... The speed difference isn't crazy though.

If both an untrained but physically fit man and Ngannou would throw a jab without proper technique, like, just throwing the jab without rotating the shoulders and hips, the raw force advantage of Ngannou would of course be bigger, but way lower than the above... More like, in the 1.5x ~ 2x stronger range. Basically, because the average man can generate decent force from their arms... The gap in technique and kinetic energy make the difference way bigger than if analysing under a simply raw strength lens.

There are also sophisticated ways that measure how hard muscles are firing. It's said that the strongest punchers in combat sports and an average strong man, may fire some muscles group roughly equally, during a jab. The triceps, for instance.

If looking at the mass of the arm alone, Ngannou's arm weigh, alone, ~ 6/6.5kg while a normal male's arm would weigh roughly 4/5 kg... The difference is more like 1.3/1.5x in mass alone. If both throw a punch at the same speed, the difference in energy would be ~ 1.5x as well.

So, it depends on how you look at it. If looking at the fist speed, the muscle force, the mass of the limbs in an isolated aspect... It might get you a << 2x difference in ""power"" between one of the strongest men and an average man. But when everything stacks together, taking into account the technical part of it, like body rotation, time, explosiveness alongside mass and speed, then the gap is like ~8x ....
A true ahill post :ahshit

I kinda agree with you, that we dunno how the aliens are measuring it. The fact speed is stated to always go up proportionally with battle power makes me think it's purely measuring physical attributes and not improvements in movement technique (eg better use of the hips). And nobody ever got a higher PL by just improving their technique. Unless technique does matter, but by that point everyone had their technique maxed out already, so further improvements only came from having more ki. Or maybe it's because by the point we were introduced to scouters, the power of ki was so huge that any improvements in striking technique became so negligible as a % that they weren't noticed (whereas in DB ki was smaller, so the technique differences would matter. Like if PL=biomechanicalefficiency*ki, when ki is 10 biomechanics matter more than when ki is 1000).


I think P may have a point it's about who wins in fights though. Because weaker PLs (as read by scouters) always lose in DBZ, unless sneaky tactics are used. But I don't see how a scouter can read someone's fight IQ/strategy ability. And does PL drop when someone is being retarded? Like when Nappa was about to try to tank a kienzan, his PL didn't drop, even though he was about to die. When Vegeta goes ARARARARARARA MY SHIRT IS PINK and spams 5 billion ki blasts that, does his PL drop?
 

Animelover5487

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A true ahill post :ahshit

I kinda agree with you, that we dunno how the aliens are measuring it. The fact speed is stated to always go up proportionally with battle power makes me think it's purely measuring physical attributes and not improvements in movement technique (eg better use of the hips). And nobody ever got a higher PL by just improving their technique. Unless technique does matter, but by that point everyone had their technique maxed out already, so further improvements only came from having more ki. Or maybe it's because by the point we were introduced to scouters, the power of ki was so huge that any improvements in striking technique became so negligible as a % that they weren't noticed (whereas in DB ki was smaller, so the technique differences would matter. Like if PL=biomechanicalefficiency*ki, when ki is 10 biomechanics matter more than when ki is 1000).


I think P may have a point it's about who wins in fights though. Because weaker PLs (as read by scouters) always lose in DBZ, unless sneaky tactics are used. But I don't see how a scouter can read someone's fight IQ/strategy ability. And does PL drop when someone is being retarded? Like when Nappa was about to try to tank a kienzan, his PL didn't drop, even though he was about to die. When Vegeta goes ARARARARARARA MY SHIRT IS PINK and spams 5 billion ki blasts that, does his PL drop?
Yeah Toriyama is a simple man. Higher battle power simply means who is stronger and would win in a fight. Even in fights like Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz where the duo had to use tactics to overcome Raditz's overwhelming power advantage it still came down to Piccolo busting out a technique with a much higher battle power than Piccolo can casually muster to kill Raditz.
 

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