How powerful is Gohan Ozaru the first time?

[Captain Cadaver]

Is there anything that contradicts that Chaoz is at Piccolo's Level (No Heavy Clothes / BoZ) at that point?

No.

Another question, do you think 100 Tenshinhan (BoZ) can against Piccolo (TB23)?

A fatigued Piccolo stated they wouldn't make a difference even if adding in Kami and there's no real reason to doubt his claim, so no.

 

[SIAD]

Is there anything that contradicts that Chaoz is at Piccolo's Level (No Heavy Clothes / BoZ) at that point?

No.

Another question, do you think 100 Tenshinhan (BoZ) can against Piccolo (TB23)?

A fatigued Piccolo stated they wouldn't make a difference even if adding in Kami and there's no real reason to doubt his claim, so no.

But I mean 100 Tenshinhan (BoZ), which is clearly much more powerful than the TB23. It would be almost like 100 Mr. Popo against Piccolo (TB23).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

There's little evidence to suggest Tenshinhan's power increased much in those 5 years, so the result would remain the same.

 

[Animelover5487]

There's little evidence to suggest Tenshinhan's power increased much in those 5 years, so the result would remain the same.

So you admit 23rd Goku/Piccolo > 250 battle power? So if you are taking Weighted Piccolo being Moon level at face value than you are admitting it took less than a 1.25x increase for them to jump from Country to Moon which is highly unrealistic.

 

[SIAD]

I am thinking that all levels below 322 are not linear. For example someone with a power of 322 can be thousands of times stronger than someone with 250 power.

From 322 power onwards, it begins to be relatively linear.

 

[GSM123]

Piccolo is probably meant to be be Moon level in the 23rd Budokai already anyway. If Roshi can do it, so can Piccolo.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

So you admit 23rd Goku/Piccolo > 250 battle power? So if you are taking Weighted Piccolo being Moon level at face value than you are admitting it took less than a 1.25x increase for them to jump from Country to Moon which is highly unrealistic.

Highly unrealistic if battle power was a linear system of scale, which it certainly isn't. The fact that the difference between a regular human and a planet buster like 1st form Freeza is only a 106,000x one yet Kaioken multiplies all stats linearly (including one's battle power/Ki) is enough to make that more than apparent.

Piccolo is probably meant to be be Moon level in the 23rd Budokai already anyway. If Roshi can do it, so can Piccolo.

If Roshi's Kamehameha is taken into account, it'd have to have traversed such a distance at Sub-Relativistic speed at the very least to reach the moon in what seems to be seconds, which doesn't line up with Popo treating reacting quicker than lightning as a big deal. Either Roshi's moon bust was an outlier, or Manly GAINZ Roshi is indeed capable of soloing Part 1.

 

[GSM123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] what if Popo’s line is just a metaphor? He also said Goku should be calm as the sky.

Besides, power and speed don’t always go hand in hand. Blasts are probably faster than actual blows since they’re the pure energy being fired rather than muscle-based, and it’s rather rare to see people successfully dodging blasts. Piccolo was pretty surprised to see his Makkankosappo dodged, for example.

 

[Animelover5487]

So you admit 23rd Goku/Piccolo > 250 battle power? So if you are taking Weighted Piccolo being Moon level at face value than you are admitting it took less than a 1.25x increase for them to jump from Country to Moon which is highly unrealistic.

Highly unrealistic if battle power was a linear system of scale, which it certainly isn't. The fact that the difference between a regular human and a planet buster like 1st form Freeza is only a 106,000x one yet Kaioken multiplies all stats linearly (including one's battle power/Ki) is enough to make that more than apparent.

In that case, why not upscale the humans and Kami/Popo too? I mean Roshi is over 30% of Goku and Piccolo, and over 50% of all the other Earthlings despite him being an ant compared to anyone of relevance past the early Daimao arc. Roshi was even surprised by how much higher Kuririn's battle power was then his when it should have been made evident to him at the 23rd that Kuririn is far, far above him.

 

[SIAD]

So you admit 23rd Goku/Piccolo > 250 battle power? So if you are taking Weighted Piccolo being Moon level at face value than you are admitting it took less than a 1.25x increase for them to jump from Country to Moon which is highly unrealistic.

Highly unrealistic if battle power was a linear system of scale, which it certainly isn't. The fact that the difference between a regular human and a planet buster like 1st form Freeza is only a 106,000x one yet Kaioken multiplies all stats linearly (including one's battle power/Ki) is enough to make that more than apparent.

In that case, why not upscale the humans and Kami/Popo too? I mean Roshi is over 30% of Goku and Piccolo, and over 50% of all the other Earthlings despite him being an ant compared to anyone of relevance past the early Daimao arc. Roshi was even surprised by how much higher Kuririn's battle power was then his when it should have been made evident to him at the 23rd that Kuririn is far, far above him.

I agree to some extent. Krillin in BoZ still talks about the extraordinary power that Goku (TB23) had.

I am thinking of strengthening the Humans and Mr. Popo, to the level that the gaps between them are not so great and they would still be too far behind Goku (TB23).

 

[Captain Cadaver]

what if Popo’s line is just a metaphor? He also said Goku should be calm as the sky.

Besides, power and speed don’t always go hand in hand. Blasts are probably faster than actual blows since they’re the pure energy being fired rather than muscle-based, and it’s rather rare to see people successfully dodging blasts. Piccolo was pretty surprised to see his Makkankosappo dodged, for example.

Because they aren't any other feats in Part 1 supporting characters of Max Power Roshi's level having such speed, leading to Popo's statement seeming far more than metaphorical (especially when lowballing it to a benchmark that had been fully surpassed would be as redundant as the several galaxy busting statements in the Super manga). Even 23rd TB Piccolo's Ki blasts took seemingly longer to reach the small islands in his fight against Kami than scaling would suggest.

In that case, why not upscale the humans and Kami/Popo too? I mean Roshi is over 30% of Goku and Piccolo, and over 50% of all the other Earthlings despite him being an ant compared to anyone of relevance past the early Daimao arc. Roshi was even surprised by how much higher Kuririn's battle power was then his when it should have been made evident to him at the 23rd that Kuririn is far, far above him.

One implication from Roshi doesn't automatically mean Kami, Popo and anyone else one feels like it got a big increase in those 5 years. Other than Goku and Piccolo, the only fighter solidly suggested to have made great improvements is Kuririn based on him being significantly above Yamcha and possibly Roshi if you take that implication seriously. The rest of the cast lack any feats or statements to suggest such is the case.
You bringing up the difference between Roshi and Goku/Piccolo further proves my point, that the battle power system isn't treat as a linear one and was never meant to have much thought put into the gaps, particularly in making them line up with what Part 1 (in which Ki control was very basic until the later points).

 

[SIAD]

what if Popo’s line is just a metaphor? He also said Goku should be calm as the sky.

Besides, power and speed don’t always go hand in hand. Blasts are probably faster than actual blows since they’re the pure energy being fired rather than muscle-based, and it’s rather rare to see people successfully dodging blasts. Piccolo was pretty surprised to see his Makkankosappo dodged, for example.

Because they aren't any other feats in Part 1 supporting characters of Max Power Roshi's level having such speed, leading to Popo's statement seeming far more than metaphorical (especially when lowballing it to a benchmark that had been fully surpassed would be as redundant as the several galaxy busting statements in the Super manga). Even 23rd TB Piccolo's Ki blasts took seemingly longer to reach the small islands in his fight against Kami than scaling would suggest.

In that case, why not upscale the humans and Kami/Popo too? I mean Roshi is over 30% of Goku and Piccolo, and over 50% of all the other Earthlings despite him being an ant compared to anyone of relevance past the early Daimao arc. Roshi was even surprised by how much higher Kuririn's battle power was then his when it should have been made evident to him at the 23rd that Kuririn is far, far above him.

One implication from Roshi doesn't automatically mean Kami, Popo and anyone else one feels like it got a big increase in those 5 years. Other than Goku and Piccolo, the only fighter solidly suggested to have made great improvements is Kuririn based on him being significantly above Yamcha and possibly Roshi if you take that implication seriously. The rest of the cast lack any feats or statements to suggest such is the case.
You bringing up the difference between Roshi and Goku/Piccolo further proves my point, that the battle power system isn't treat as a linear one and was never meant to have much thought put into the gaps, particularly in making them line up with what Part 1 (in which Ki control was very basic until the later points).

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] I've been thinking about the following, in the Manga when Krillin asks if they should save Gohan from Piccolo's hands, Master Roshi hints that they won't. Krillin later mentions that they have absolutely no chance against someone who has 329.

That makes me think that Krillin would have little hope of saving Gohan in case Piccolo had kept his power from TB23, but against Piccolo's new power with 329 they have no chance. On the other hand Krillin (BoZ) coincided extraordinary the power of Goku (TB23).

Perhaps Tenshinhan (BoZ) is massively superior to Krillin (BoZ) and if all Humans combine their powers they could manage to distract Piccolo (TB23) and save Gohan.

Also Roshi in BoZ is superior to Chichi, therefore he is not completely weak compared to Piccolo Daimao.

All this may indicate us that the Humans, Mr. Popo and Kamisama got stronger in those 5 years, but still all are still inferior to Piccolo (TB23), but at least not necessarily the latter should be much more powerful than Kamisama (BoZ).

What do you think of the point I just made?

 

[Future Warrior]

Either Roshi's moon bust was an outlier, or Manly GAINZ Roshi is indeed capable of soloing Part 1.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I've been thinking about the following, in the Manga when Krillin asks if they should save Gohan from Piccolo's hands, Master Roshi hints that they won't. Krillin later mentions that they have absolutely no chance against someone who has 329.

That makes me think that Krillin would have little hope of saving Gohan in case Piccolo had kept his power from TB23, but against Piccolo's new power with 329 they have no chance. On the other hand Krillin (BoZ) coincided extraordinary the power of Goku (TB23).

It's made apparent in the scene that Kuririn wasn't thinking logically until Roshi pointed out why it was a bad idea, so it's far from indicative of how Kuririn compared to a previous version of Piccolo.

 

[SIAD]

I've been thinking about the following, in the Manga when Krillin asks if they should save Gohan from Piccolo's hands, Master Roshi hints that they won't. Krillin later mentions that they have absolutely no chance against someone who has 329.

That makes me think that Krillin would have little hope of saving Gohan in case Piccolo had kept his power from TB23, but against Piccolo's new power with 329 they have no chance. On the other hand Krillin (BoZ) coincided extraordinary the power of Goku (TB23).

It's made apparent in the scene that Kuririn wasn't thinking logically until Roshi pointed out why it was a bad idea, so it's far from indicative of how Kuririn compared to a previous version of Piccolo.

Roshi in BoZ is superior to Chichi, therefore he is not completely weak compared to Piccolo Daimao.

Do you think Krillin (BoZ) has massively surpassed Piccolo Daimao? Do you think he reached the power of Tenshinhan (Suppressed against Mecha Tao Pai Pai) or would he even have reached the power of Tenshinhan (TB23)?

Tenshinhan (BoZ) do you think he will rival Goku (Unweighted against Tenshinhan) or Mr. Popo?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Roshi in BoZ is superior to Chichi, therefore he is not completely weak compared to Piccolo Daimao.

Chichi is still far from Prime Piccolo Daimao's league though manga-wise, so it doesn't really make much difference.

Do you think Krillin (BoZ) has massively surpassed Piccolo Daimao? Do you think he reached the power of Tenshinhan (Suppressed against Mecha Tao Pai Pai) or would he even have reached the power of Tenshinhan (TB23)?

V-Jump places Cyborg Taopaipai at 210 and the game Goku Hishoden places Tenshinhan at 218 at that point. Even though the former battle power clearly isn't accurate when Taopaipai isn't suggested to be overwhelmingly above Yamcha even with the Super Dodonpa, it does make it apparent that official sources didn't believe Kuririn had reached 23rd TB Tenshinhan's level.

Tenshinhan (BoZ) do you think he will rival Goku (Unweighted against Tenshinhan) or Mr. Popo?

Possibly, but all that's purely speculation with little to no evidence backing it up.

 

[SIAD]

Is it true that in a guide they mention that Goku (TB23) with a Super Kamehameha could destroy the Moon?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It mentions his Kamehameha being far greater than the one Roshi used to destroy the moon. Considering Roshi's feat was clearly on outlier though, I wouldn't put much stock in it.

 

[SIAD]

It's amazing to know that Goku and Piccolo became billions of times stronger in those 5 years.