How powerful was Future Goku SSJ (Before he got sick)?

[ahill1]

I don't think Goku & Trunks' gains can be linked to Gohan. We saw those two completely distance themselves from the future powerscaling, and having more longevity within the story provides the incentive for them to go far. On the other hand, Gohan was very much still within the domain of the future scaling, significantly below the top tier. Considering Gohan had trust that things would work out even if he died, it appears he thought of Trunks' development highly even without him being there.

It's worth noting that Goku did express killing intentions in relation to their fully-powered fight. The "Die Frieza!" line that I mentioned came while they were battling at 100%. Goku also said that Frieza's about to die as the all out bout was commencing.

We also saw that 100% Frieza could keep up with Goku in both hand-to-hand and ki attacks for some time. While Frieza is at his best, it wasn't a walk in the park for Goku no matter where his mind was.

@ScottyFamalam

It looks as though that mechanism -- or word of it -- was largely dormant/absent in the story, with a narrow scope of reference. When a Saiyan is rewarded from this in any meaningful capacity, it's hammered into the audience that a gain was made. SSJ Goku also wasn't near death, physically speaking.

Hmm I see. Fair enough then, nice discussion

 

[Spiral-Force]

@ahill1 I enjoyed the back and forth.

@GreatSaiyaman123 Goku looked tired more than anything. He mentioned how it was a rough ride - the anime showed his pod smashing into things before landing. During the Namek escape, he was leaping from one ship to another like nothing, so I don't think it was a big deal.

@ScottyFamalam When Super Saiyan was reached, it looked like past energy reserve struggles were no longer a problem for Goku. The idea that Goku got a boost isn't necessarily invalid, but neither is being sceptical of it. Much like rage boosts, they're quite volatile and make you think: why'd X get a boost from his anger here, but not Y when raging over Z? To each his own.

 

[Warmmedown]

segway

segue

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@GreatSaiyaman123 If Gohan did not reach his target of being as strong as Goku, a couple of factors stick out: 1) Wouldn't Gohan try to address that before getting into a deathmatch with an artificial human that exceeds his dad? 2) being stronger than 17 -- and by extension, 18 as well in Gohan's mind under your logic -- is not something I'd categorize as a mere glimpse of hope. It's about the following perception: hmm, Gohan is up there with the best Z Fighter ever, and might be able to progress further. Making the necessary increase is not guaranteed, but there's a bit of hope nonetheless.

1) Gohan was acting emotional when he started the fight. He leaves Trunks behind saying only he can beat the androids eventually, then he goes after the twins saying it ends then and there.

I don’t see how Gohan being as strong as Goku is even possible. Saying he “hopes” to be as strong one day is a very explicit way of saying he’s not up there yet.

2) Being stronger means nothing in a 2v1 fight. It truly is just a glimpse of hope. I can see Gohan being weaker if he expected to fight 17 in a 1v1, however.

Btw, in an earlier post in this thread you said Sick Goku is weaker than Namek Goku. How do you reconcile that with Tenshinhan and co. not noticing he’s weaker than 3 years ago?

 

[ahill1]

Lol funny ppl replying back continuing the debate 5 months when the thread is revived

 

[Yoshi]

Lol funny ppl replying back continuing the debate 5 months when the thread is revived

Good thing it was never locked. LOL.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Lol, if Future Gohan was as strong as Gokuu, then Trunks wouldn't have been so amazed by Gokuu's strength when they met.

Future Trunks basically admitted to being weaker than Gokuu. Trunks is only about as strong as Future Gohan at this point.

 

[Spiral-Force]

segue

To revive this thread over that, and doing such in a separate thread...

Find another user to obsess over.

1) Gohan was acting emotional when he started the fight. He leaves Trunks behind saying only he can beat the androids eventually, then he goes after the twins saying it ends then and there.

I don’t see how Gohan being as strong as Goku is even possible. Saying he “hopes” to be as strong one day is a very explicit way of saying he’s not up there yet.

2) Being stronger means nothing in a 2v1 fight. It truly is just a glimpse of hope. I can see Gohan being weaker if he expected to fight 17 in a 1v1, however.

Btw, in an earlier post in this thread you said Sick Goku is weaker than Namek Goku. How do you reconcile that with Tenshinhan and co. not noticing he’s weaker than 3 years ago?

The manga would suggest that the situation calls for not only physical strength, but a strong will, with the latter being what Gohan thought he lacked in comparison with his father.

I don't see a win condition for Gohan even if he held a slight advantage. Not only was he outnumbered, but his opponents never get tired. Nothing stood out about his martial arts ability either. We can agree to disagree about hope. It was a minor point.

Didn't Piccolo reconcile that in canon? They just weren't paying as much attention. Tien and co's reaction tells us that even a declining Super Saiyan is still incredible to them.

 

[MikaelHarding]

Above the Z fighters but inferior to future 17 and 18

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Fair enough. I wasn’t trying to revive the debate as much as I just wanted to get closure on a couple of topics I forgot to ask about when this thread was active.

 

[Spiral-Force]

No problem GSM - you responded with something relevant and it technically wasn't you that revived the thread. From what I've seen, you usually stick to the topic in each debate, so you are not bothersome in the slightest.

 

[Warmmedown]

To revive this thread over that, and doing such in a separate thread...

Find another user to obsess over.

Nothing personal or intended as an insult, mostly a joke aimed at the word since I recently mentioned myself misspelling the word, in some other thread. And I'd rather know the spelling anyway.