How strong is Gogeta? (manga)

[Power Level Guy]

It's pretty hard to picture that when Gotenks needed SSJ3 to be on par with Super Boo. The adults aren't exponentially stronger than the kids.

But they are.

SSJ2 Vegeta is stupidly more powerful than the SSJ Kids. Fusion should be based off of top power and the transformations boost retroactively applied to that top power.

Also, the coolness factor. Gogeta is probably the coolest character in the whole series. You can't do him dirty brah, think about the fandom. As a fandom, we should collectively agree that Super Vegetto > Super Gogeta > Buuhan is the best way. Look how cool Gogeta looks in M12, to make him piss weak sucks.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

SSJ2 Vegeta is stupidly more powerful than the SSJ Kids.

That's only because he has a higher transformation.

Same forms, Vegeeta isn't much stronger.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah no way they’d ever make him weak. Toriyama was going to have Gogeta vs Boohan until Toei beat him to the punch with M12.

 

[Kyo]

We don't live in the alternate universe where Toriyama had Gogeta vs Boohan, so too bad.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Gogeeta is confirmed = to Vegett and Fusion dance isn't said to have a rival boost so

Rival boost = nonexistent

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

We don't live in the alternate universe where Toriyama had Gogeta vs Boohan, so too bad.

Yeah because your mama ate it

 

[Power Level Guy]

That's only because he has a higher transformation.

Same forms, Vegeeta isn't much stronger.

That’s how it works though. Goku has a higher transformation which allows him to have much more power. This doesn’t somehow hurt his ability to produce fusion power. Your top power is what matters in a fusion. Vegeta and Goku aren’t equals, Goku is way stronger.

Gogeeta is confirmed = to Vegett and Fusion dance isn't said to have a rival boost so

Rival boost = nonexistent

That would just mean fusion recognizes rivals boost as well.

Yeah no way they’d ever make him weak. Toriyama was going to have Gogeta vs Boohan until Toei beat him to the punch with M12.

Yeah, Gogeta is going to get massive respect in the manga. No way does he have to resort to Ssj2 or Ssj3.

Bro, they made Gogeta = Vegetto now, Gogeta should be treated with the utmost respect. This is the GOAT. No one is cooler than Gogeta.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, Gogeta is going to get massive respect in the manga. No way does he have to resort to Ssj2 or Ssj3.

Bro, they made Gogeta = Vegetto now, Gogeta should be treated with the utmost respect. This is the GOAT. No one is cooler than Gogeta.

I don’t see Toriyama bothering to differentiate Gogeta and Vegetto in the later years. They have the same narrative function and I don’t see them making a fan favorite match up so necessary. Fusion is 100% dictates by hype and fanservice rules.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well I think you still have to make Vegetto > Gogeta in the Buu Arc. We have a reason to make it so. If they are true equals, Vegetto and Gogeta are equals. If Goku is stronger, Vegetto is a bit stronger. It’s the only way to make it cohesive.

 

[ahill1]

For now I'm cool with the "Vegetto can dominate Boohan the same way Gogeta would do, but Gogeta would need SSJ2"... So, SSJ Gogeta ~ Boohan. Seems fair enough to me. It also fits with Goku thinking him and Gohan fusing would need SSJ to beat Bootenks, and Goku would more likely have the Metamorian fusion boost when think they'd need SSJ to defeat Bootenks. Boohan still thought that even if they fused, they'd be no match for him — he doesn't know the other warrior can transform so it may be argued Boohan wasn't considering a hypothetical fusion between Goku and the mysterious chi that appeared + SSJ2 and 3... Well, not SSJ either by that logic... But eh, I'll as pull day he thought SSJ as the likely outcome, so Gogeta being <= Boohan in SSJ and needing SSJ2 to win makes things nice for me.

If I'm allowed to use the EML here just to complement on something, it's suggested base Vegetto was > Bootenks, since it was said Vegetto would be, likely, above a Potara Goku and Gohan... So base Vegetto could be ~ Boohan, like SSJ Gogeta... And if we adopt the SSJ multiplier for fusions like, a 2.5x one (50x being / by 5 after RoSaT = 10x ; 10x/5 after fusion = 2x... Roughly 2.5x), then it also fits with base Vegetto being ~ SSJ Gogeta ~ Boohan and then, SSJ Vegetto ~ SSJ2 Gogeta.

 

[Power Level Guy]

If you make Base Vegetto ~ SSJ Gogeta, how can you rationalize them being equals later. They shouldn’t have such a wide disparity.

 

[ahill1]

If you make Base Vegetto ~ SSJ Gogeta, how can you rationalize them being equals later. They shouldn’t have such a wide disparity.

Well, as I said, that'd be factoring a 2.5x multiplier for fusions.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, as I said, that'd be factoring a 2.5x multiplier for fusions.

There isn’t any evidence of anything other than a 50x boost for fusions though.

 

[ahill1]

There isn’t any evidence of anything other than a 50x boost for fusions though.

It's just one of the many paths someone can take.

I feel 50x was valid for the Freeza saga. But I also think it's a valid way to fit the numbers under a way that would be shaped according to the story that's being told, at certain times — AT doesn't use a calculator... So he'd be unlikely to be thinking of "hmm I'm factoring a 50x boost when I make this implication about base states, let me see if that's possible numerically"... But he has also expressed he felt the SSJ more like 10x when drawing it, though he said that ultimately it was 50x there vs Freeza. But still, that'd mean to me that the implications he may have logically thought up when categorizing their strength in their base states would more closely align to what he felt when drawing, not to what he, when thinking about it under other circumstances, logically sees as a 'perhaps really fitting better'...

And with fusion, it'd be more like for the sake of SSJ being once 50x, but then, possibly (as I tried to give my reasons above), a 10x... So fusion is, what I'd imagine, a Saiyan getting closer, ever, to the full potential of a Saiyan... And needing SSJ less and less... Like Ultimate Gohan, the final development, accessing all the power he could muster in his life (as far as original manga DBZ goes) in a base like state, with Old Boss Kaioshin saying SSJ is not the right way to do things...

 

[ScottyFamalam]

That’s how it works though. Goku has a higher transformation which allows him to have much more power. This doesn’t somehow hurt his ability to produce fusion power. Your top power is what matters in a fusion. Vegeta and Goku aren’t equals, Goku is way stronger.

All the more reason rival boost isn't a thing, then.

That would just mean fusion recognizes rivals boost as well.

Head canon and you just explained why Gokuu and Vegeeta aren't rivals, power-wise.

 

[SSJ2]

But they are.

SSJ2 Vegeta is stupidly more powerful than the SSJ Kids. Fusion should be based off of top power and the transformations boost retroactively applied to that top power.

Also, the coolness factor. Gogeta is probably the coolest character in the whole series. You can't do him dirty brah, think about the fandom. As a fandom, we should collectively agree that Super Vegetto > Super Gogeta > Buuhan is the best way. Look how cool Gogeta looks in M12, to make him piss weak sucks.

But where is the logic that the fusion's power should be based on the top power come from? Why do the fusions have to fuse at equal powers if it isn't relevant to the fusion? That seemed like yet another one of the big advantages of the potara over the fusion dance.

 

[Power Level Guy]

But where is the logic that the fusion's power should be based on the top power come from? Why do the fusions have to fuse at equal powers if it isn't relevant to the fusion? That seemed like yet another one of the big advantages of the potara over the fusion dance.

Base Gogeta/Vegetto > Blue Goku/Vegeta

SSJ God Goku > SSJ3 Vegetto

How else can you explain this? There’s no way that Blue pales in comparison to Ritual God. Is there?

 

[SSJ2]

Base Gogeta/Vegetto > Blue Goku/Vegeta

SSJ God Goku > SSJ3 Vegetto

How else can you explain this? There’s no way that Blue pales in comparison to Ritual God. Is there?

That's fair. But all this is saying is that Base Gogeta is above SSJ3 Goku, which doesn't mean much on the scales we're talking about.

 

[Power Level Guy]

That's fair. But all this is saying is that Base Gogeta is above SSJ3 Goku, which doesn't mean much on the scales we're talking about.

Base Vegetto isn't all that much stronger than Goku as well. I have Vegetto 3x SSJ3 Goku. That's fair.

 

[SSJ2]

Base Vegetto isn't all that much stronger than Goku as well. I have Vegetto 3x SSJ3 Goku. That's fair.

Where do you have Gotenks then?