How strong is Gogeta? (manga)

[Power Level Guy]

@SSJ2

SSJ3 Goku 10
SSJ Gotenks 15
Gogeta 20
Vegetto 30
SSJ2 Gotenks 60
SSJ3 Gotenks 300
Ultimate Gohan 450
Buutenks 600
Buuhan 750
Super Gogeta 1,000
Super Vegetto 1,500

It’s perfect brah

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There isn’t any evidence of anything other than a 50x boost for fusions though.

Base Gogeta >>> Base Broly yet SSJ Gogeta = SSJ Broly.

But where is the logic that the fusion's power should be based on the top power come from? Why do the fusions have to fuse at equal powers if it isn't relevant to the fusion? That seemed like yet another one of the big advantages of the potara over the fusion dance.

It’s more of a thematic thing, not part of the formula.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Broly grew in power as he did 1,000 x before.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Piccolo getting 100x stronger af Kaio’s really opened the floodgates for people to argue anything.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Piccolo getting 100x stronger af Kaio’s really opened the floodgates for people to argue anything.

It sure did. But it happened once. They act like it’s happening every 5 seconds.

But we still need to be evidence based.

SSJ Broly ~ SSJ Gogeta > Base Gogeta >>> Base Broly

Proves that Broly powered up further. That’s the most rational idea.

Varying boosts are never suggested in the series in strong enough detail to warrant them.

 

[ahill1]

SSJ Goten/Trunks : 100
SSJ Goku : 225

SSJ2 Goku : 450
— SSJ3 : 1,800

SSJ Gotenks : 2,000
— base Gotenks : 800

Fat Boo : 1,500

Super Boo (initially) : 4,000

---> post RoSaT

Gotenks : 4,000
—> SSJ : 10,000
—> SSJ3 : 80,000

Super Boo : 80,000

Ultimate Gohan : 120,00
Boo-Gotenks : 160,000
Boohan : 200,000

Base Gokhan (hypothetical) : 180,000

Vegetto : 200,000
—> SSJ : 500,000


That works pretty well to me. That is, if taking all statements and implications as they were laid out; and also, adopting the EML's take on a hypothetical Gokhan still, probably (they used a word that showed uncertainty in Spanish), not being as strong as Vegetto — while base Gokhan would still be noticeably above Bootenks based on Old Kaioshin saying that, even without SSJ, Potara Goku and Gohan should defeat Bootenks.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Looks good @ahill1

 

[SSJ2]

Gokhan not being stronger than Vegetto insanity. Gohan is already close to Gotenks-Boo's level and yet Gokhan is barely surpassing that in Base? I think EML is full of shit with that.

I like the list though. 2.5x SSJ on fusions looks really clean for some reason.

 

[SIAD]

SSJ Goten/Trunks : 100
SSJ Goku : 225

SSJ2 Goku : 450
— SSJ3 : 1,800

SSJ Gotenks : 2,000
— base Gotenks : 800

Fat Boo : 1,500

Super Boo (initially) : 4,000

---> post RoSaT

Gotenks : 4,000
—> SSJ : 10,000
—> SSJ3 : 80,000

Super Boo : 80,000

Ultimate Gohan : 120,00
Boo-Gotenks : 160,000
Boohan : 200,000

Base Gokhan (hypothetical) : 180,000

Vegetto : 200,000
—> SSJ : 500,000


That works pretty well to me. That is, if taking all statements and implications as they were laid out; and also, adopting the EML's take on a hypothetical Gokhan still, probably (they used a word that showed uncertainty in Spanish), not being as strong as Vegetto — while base Gokhan would still be noticeably above Bootenks based on Old Kaioshin saying that, even without SSJ, Potara Goku and Gohan should defeat Bootenks.

@ahill1

Why not better to have Gokhan Base with 192,000. He would be much more powerful than Gotenks Boo and would still be inferior to Vegetto.

Will Gokhan be able to transform into Ultimate? If so, how powerful would it be?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Gokhan not being stronger than Vegetto insanity. Gohan is already close to Gotenks-Boo's level and yet Gokhan is barely surpassing that in Base? I think EML is full of shit with that.

I like the list though. 2.5x SSJ on fusions looks really clean for some reason.

Me too. Gokhan is obviously way stronger than Vegetto. EML is better than most guidebooks but this isn’t right.

Vegetto is my guy 100%, but Gokhan is a legit animal monster. No way can any Goku/Vegeta fusion keep up with that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Funny that most scalers moved away from nerfing SSJ multipliers around the time Kaboom started doing that.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Funny that most scalers moved away from nerfing SSJ multipliers around the time Kaboom started doing that.

Haha it’s like when the adults do a kid trend and it’s no longer cool to do.

There’s no need to nerf Super Saiyan multipliers. It’s the wrong way.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Haha it’s like when the adults do a kid trend and it’s no longer cool to do.

There’s no need to nerf Super Saiyan multipliers. It’s the wrong way.

Only reason people started nerfing the multipliers was because of post Rosat base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku. We were bloating and nerfing at the same time.

GT seems to require low multipliers for everyone though. Super may or may not. I need to know how strong DBS base Goku is first.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Only reason people started nerfing the multipliers was because of post Rosat base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku. We were bloating and nerfing at the same time.

Yeah, no one ever nerfs Vegetto's multiplier. They nerf Gotenks. But it's not our fault, AT made his gag too convincing with the power statements. He's never done anything quite so bold, it took us years to really unpack exactly how we should evaluate it.

GT seems to require low multipliers for everyone though. Super may or may not. I need to know how strong DBS base Goku is first.

Super has that guidebook confirming the 50x multiplier, so Super should definitely be a 50x multiplier.

I'm sure it is for GT as well. TOEI just doesn't know how to do any sort of power scaling at all. It's like they are really just so dumb. But that's coming from a couple of guys who have made power scaling their whole lives. So we have to reasonable here. They just don't know any better. They are doing the best they can.

 

[SSJ2]

Only reason people started nerfing the multipliers was because of post Rosat base Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku. We were bloating and nerfing at the same time.

This is just not true.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This is just not true.

So what were people nerfing the multipliers for? Vegetto? Fusion wise we only had Gotenks back then. It’s obviously.

Sure you got people making SSJ = 10x for Gero and what not, but I’m thinking strictly of fusions here.

Super has that guidebook confirming the 50x multiplier, so Super should definitely be a 50x multiplier.

I'm sure it is for GT as well. TOEI just doesn't know how to do any sort of power scaling at all. It's like they are really just so dumb. But that's coming from a couple of guys who have made power scaling their whole lives. So we have to reasonable here. They just don't know any better. They are doing the best they can.

Come to think of it, the guide (Actually a pamphlet for the BoG movie) probably holds as much weight as a proper guide at best. It’s just repeating the info everybody knows. I don’t think that stops anyone from saying it’s less or more than 50x.

I don’t think Toei tries at all tbh. They just want to show Goku fighting in all his forms.

 

[SSJ2]

So what were people nerfing the multipliers for? Vegetto? Fusion wise we only had Gotenks back then. It’s obviously.

Sure you got people making SSJ = 10x for Gero and what not, but I’m thinking strictly of fusions here.

It's because of Gotenks but not for the sake of nerfing him like you're implying.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don’t think that stops anyone from saying it’s less or more than 50x.

Yeah, I can't get behind that. BoG coming out with a pamphlet that reaffirms 50x in the Super era should end the 50x debate. It has for me. Notice how they didn't use the 2x and 4x for SSJ2 and SSJ3. That even made the 50x claim stronger. They were smart enough to avoid reaffirming those boosts.

I think I stumbled onto a math discovery as well. I believe through SSJ2 Z Sword Gohan, we can confirm that SSJ2 has to be more than 2x if we know SSJ2 Gohan = SSJ Z Sword Gohan.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It's because of Gotenks but not for the sake of nerfing him like you're implying.

Because of Gotenks going from SSJ2 level to rivaling SSJ3 Goku with SSJ right? That’s certainly part of the reason too. Just base Gotenks being too OP and making 50x serm off.

Yeah, I can't get behind that. BoG coming out with a pamphlet that reaffirms 50x in the Super era should end the 50x debate. It has for me. Notice how they didn't use the 2x and 4x for SSJ2 and SSJ3. That even made the 50x claim stronger. They were smart enough to avoid reaffirming those boosts.

I think I stumbled onto a math discovery as well. I believe through SSJ2 Z Sword Gohan, we can confirm that SSJ2 has to be more than 2x if we know SSJ2 Gohan = SSJ Z Sword Gohan.

50x has been a thing since forever, including by Toriyama himself. SSJ2 and 3 were only once I think. Goes to show the SEG isn’t that authoritative (Though I dare say it had more AT participation that the Daizenshuus).

Why? Because Z Sword Gohan goes from SSJ2 level to Fat Boo level when he goes SSJ2? Makes sense. Keep in mind Z Sword SSJ = CG SSJ2 is game stuff though. That’s not convincing anyone.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Keep in mind Z Sword SSJ = CG SSJ2 is game stuff though. That’s not convincing anyone.

Yeah, I'm not Dagon lol. I'm not the type of guy to use game implications, but they are pretty cool to look at some times.

Z Sword SSJ Gohan = SSJ2 Teen Gohan is from the source material.