I believe Goku didn;t want to hurt Vegeta's feelings by going SSJ3 against Evil Boo now

[kriss-]

Because he didn't want to use Ssj3.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Because he can't deflect the attack. You're adding an unnecessary spin to his quote.

 

[kriss-]

Not at all.

Vegeta was there so he didn't want to use. This fits in context with the story.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta's presence has nothing to do with Goku wanting to use Super Saiyan 3 or not. What's fact is that he can't beat any form of Boo without Super Saiyan 3 or fusion, and one of those options was never going to happen again.

 

[kriss-]

Vegeta was there, so he didn't use Super Saiyan 3.

1 Super Saiyan 2 can stand to Innocent Boo. 2 Super Saiyan 2s would give him a fight. Had another Ssj2 been there to clean up the mess, Innocent Boo would have been defeated. He's not powerful enough on his own for you to determine that only SSj3 tier power can fight him. That's illogical.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

There's a reason why Goku decided against using Super Saiyan 2 against Fat Boo immediately after transforming into a Super Saiyan 2. It's because he had no other choice.

 

[kriss-]

He was on his own.

Vegeta nearly defeated Boo by himself, like Gotenks did to Super Boo. The only reason Boo was able to come back in both situations is because the heroes either didn't know about Boo's regenerative capabilities being as great as they were and not destroying the pieces completely with their Ki, and there not being any other SSj2 fighter to help clean up the mess for the former situation.

So please.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What does it matter if he was on his own or not? Vegeta said fighting Fat Boo as a team was useless and that he'd have to be beaten in a "special" way. It means Fat Boo is way stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta and Goku, or there'd be no point in clarifying that Boo must be defeated through other means.

The Gotenks/Final Explosion is a whole different thing entirely. None of this would make a difference in dealing with Super/Kid Boo because they'd be vaporized easily. Look at Vegeta Vs Kid Boo for a better understanding.

 

[kriss-]

The story makes so much more sense if you look at it from the perspective of Goku not wanting to use Super Saiyan 3.

When Goku finally meets Vegeta prior to becoming Vegetto, he sees how pissed off Vegeta was and it nearly cost the fate of the entire world and the Dragonballs. This is where it starts.

While inside Majin Boo's body, there were more alternatives to defeating Boo than just transforming into Super Saiyan 3, many more alternatives. By the time Super Boo showed up inside his own body, the two fighters had become so significantly weak that Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't of mattered because their power dropped in proportion to their size. Once their outside of Boo's body, it's still illogical for you to try and argue that Super Saiyan 2 power is useless, because it isn't', Boo has nearly been defeated twice by fighters significantly weaker than himself. There is more than one alternative to winning a fight than sheer battle power and who has the bigger dick. When Goku says 'this way we might be able to manage something', he's got the back-up of all the other fighters, a weakened Boo (which turns out to be inaccurate) and there is no reason for him to become a Super Saiyan 3 and piss off Vegeta, which may or may not have bigger repercussions this time around. They immediately run towards The World of the Kais and Goku is still adamant about using it, because he still tries to find an alternative measure of defeating Majin Boo, whom takes them completely off guard by instantly copying Kibitoshins technique and finding them. Prior to the final battle, Goku isn't sure of how powerful Boo has become. He believes SSj3 might end it too quickly and Vegeta may not get his turn. Summarily, if that Boo was stronger than Vegeta imagined while fighting Goku SSj3, that it's quite clear that Goku would also have no idea as to how powerful Pure Boo actually was the entire time. So the argument that Goku going in as a Super Saiyan 2 is not without merit and actually makes sense, even more-so when you incorporate Toriyama's interview about Pure Boo's strength being a lie and Goku's comment about the same thing. Goku only uses Super Saiyan 3 after Vegeta's admission.

So when you argue your petty arguments of 'Well common sense dictates that Goku would have to use SSj3 to fight Boo because of so and so reasons', you're actually going against everything within the story and are simply too lost in your beliefs about gaps and powers and fan made principals, oh, and probably your disrespect for me because I know how much you dislike it when someone challenges your ideas.

Face it, your ideas are not the only ones out there and they are not the valid ones and nobody has to follow them.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What is so special about Super Saiyan 3 that it's suddenly become a forbidden power-up? That makes the story more incoherent, if anything.

While inside Majin Boo's body, there were more alternatives to defeating Boo than just transforming into Super Saiyan 3, many more alternatives.

You mean one more, right? Yeah, that was declined by Vegeta when he said he'll never merge with Goku again. There were no other alternative besides Super Saiyan 3 because fusion was out of the question.

By the time Super Boo showed up inside his own body, the two fighters had become so significantly weak that Super Saiyan 3 wouldn't of mattered because their power dropped in proportion to their size.

There was no other way Goku would've been able to defeat him at the same size without Super Saiyan 3, though. Everyone is small in that situation, so it would've been the same difference.

Once their outside of Boo's body, it's still illogical for you to try and argue that Super Saiyan 2 power is useless, because it isn't'

Look at Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta's efforts against Kid Boo. He only needed to stall for one minute and looked what happened.

Boo has nearly been defeated twice by fighters significantly weaker than himself. There is more than one alternative to winning a fight than sheer battle power and who has the bigger dick.

Those were special instances. The Kamikaze Ghosts actually fooled Super Boo on their own, and Vegeta convinced Fat Boo to stand there while he did the Final Explosion. So you've described a situation where two exceptionally powerful attacks were a factor. Goku has nothing sans a KMH and Vegeta has a Final Flash. In other words, neither have any attack nearly that powerful, so Super Saiyan 2 would've been useless.

What happened when Gotenks got serious against Super Boo? Got that ass whooped? When Boo fought Gohan? Took a foot in the ass.. What happened when Gotenks Boo fought Gohan? What happened when Gohan Boo fought Super Vegito? Boo got washed. Basically, the more powerful guy with the bigger dick(s) is usually taking the cake. Those two instances in no way change that.

When Goku says 'this way we might be able to manage something', he's got the back-up of all the other fighters, a weakened Boo (which turns out to be inaccurate) and there is no reason for him to become a Super Saiyan 3 and piss off Vegeta, which may or may not have bigger repercussions this time around.

Gohan and the others are unconscious and thus a non-factor. If that were the case, then why was he so scared to go outside to fight Super Boo? If he would've been able to hold his own as a Super Saiyan 2, then surely that would've given Gohan enough time to wake up.

I keep seeing you mention Super Saiyan 3 and how it'd piss Vegeta off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Goku's reluctance to showing Super Saiyan 3 that pissed Vegeta off If so, then how is continuing to hide Super Saiyan 3 beneficial to keeping Vegeta's rage in check? He's already made it clear that Goku's reluctance to show the form disgusted him, so in what world is Goku continuing on with the same behavior a smart thing to do? There would've been no repercussions. What is Vegeta going to do? It's completely out of nowhere. Seriously.

They immediately run towards The World of the Kais and Goku is still adamant about using it, because he still tries to find an alternative measure of defeating Majin Boo, whom takes them completely off guard by instantly copying Kibitoshins technique and finding them.

He's adamant about not merging, actually. He wanted to fight with his "own power" now that Boo was fighting alone as well. There were no other alternatives. A planetary explosion did nothing, fusion was no longer an option, so it' was clearly going to be Super Saiyan 3 Goku fighting Kid Boo.

Prior to the final battle, Goku isn't sure of how powerful Boo has become. He believes SSj3 might end it too quickly and Vegeta may not get his turn. Summarily, if that Boo was stronger than Vegeta imagined while fighting Goku SSj3, that it's quite clear that Goku would also have no idea as to how powerful Pure Boo actually was the entire time.

Goku isn't sure either way if it'd end the battle too quickly, which is why he said Vegeta "might not" get his turn. What's clear is Goku knows he can't play any games because the universe is at stake--and says he's going to fight at his best right from the jump. The reader knows that his full-power is Super Saiyan 3, so that'd be his best. Goku was simply telling Vegeta that it'll likely end before he could get a turn. That's not the same as asking someone for permission to do something. He does not need Vegeta's approval to use Super Saiyan 3.

You're also assuming Goku and Vegeta think the same when they don't. Vegeta judged Kid Boo on his size, Goku judged him on the fact that he's become more manageable. They're not the same person, so how they assess things aren't remotely related. Goku never once said anything about Kid Boo being stronger than he thought, either. The only thing I recall Goku commenting on is his regeneration and how he seemingly ignores all damage.

So the argument that Goku going in as a Super Saiyan 2 is not without merit and actually makes sense, even more-so when you incorporate Toriyama's interview about Pure Boo's strength being a lie and Goku's comment about the same thing. Goku only uses Super Saiyan 3 after Vegeta's admission.

Even after seeing how strong both are, Vegeta questions how Goku was able to fight against someone as strong as Kid Boo. Sensing isn't enough. So that AT Q&A is only about Kid Boo now? Vegeta's admission doesn't matter. Goku planned on fighting with his all before Vegeta says anything. His all isn't Super Saiyan 2.

So when you argue your petty arguments of 'Well common sense dictates that Goku would have to use SSj3 to fight Boo because of so and so reasons', you're actually going against everything within the story and are simply too lost in your beliefs about gaps and powers and fan made principals

I don't need common sense. Goku literally says he's going fight Kid Boo with his all before Vegeta even says anything. What you're saying is that Goku is yet again telling another lie to the reader, despite the fact that it's ridiculous and unnecessary by this point in the series. If Goku says he's going to go all-out right from the start, it means just that. You're the one trying to change the meaning of his statement to continue on with your "He didn't want to annoy Vegeta" theory.

oh, and probably your disrespect for me because I know how much you dislike it when someone challenges your ideas.

Now why would you say something like that? I don't have any disrespect for you, I just simply don't agree with a lot of the things you say. I also have no issue when people dislike my ideas on anything. That's like the entire point of debating.

Face it, your ideas are not the only ones out there and they are not the valid ones and nobody has to follow them.

Challenging ones ideas is what brings debates. I'm challenging your ideas. That doesn't mean I think my way is the only way--just that I see enough holes in your stance to give a rebuttal. That's all.

 

[kriss-]

What is so special about Super Saiyan 3 that it's suddenly become a forbidden power-up? That makes the story more incoherent, if anything.

It goes against the entire story.

You mean one more, right? Yeah, that was declined by Vegeta when he said he'll never merge with Goku again. There were no other alternative besides Super Saiyan 3 because fusion was out of the question.

It doesn't take from the fact that SSj3 was out of the question due to the fact their power had shrunk.

So this comment doesn't carry anything of value.

There was no other way Goku would've been able to defeat him at the same size without Super Saiyan 3, though. Everyone is small in that situation, so it would've been the same difference.

Luckily they escape, and no, Goku couldn't beat him with SSj3 during that time.

Look at Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta's efforts against Kid Boo. He only needed to stall for one minute and looked what happened.

They don't know Pure Boo is as power as Goku SSj3 yet.

Those were special instances. The Kamikaze Ghosts actually fooled Super Boo on their own, and Vegeta convinced Fat Boo to stand there while he did the Final Explosion.

So you've described a situation where two exceptionally powerful attacks were a factor. Goku has nothing sans a KMH and Vegeta has a Final Flash. In other words, neither have any attack nearly that powerful, so Super Saiyan 2 would've been useless.

Goku has the Genki Dama. Which would have been efficient based on their belief that Kid Boo was actually weak enough for them to fight.

What happened when Gotenks got serious against Super Boo? Got that ass whooped?

Gotenks' power was contradicted by Super Boo, whom only saved him for the purpose of defeating Chou Gohan.

When Boo fought Gohan? Took a foot in the ass..

Super Boo prepared for that and eventually gained the upper-hand, he only needed to make sure that Gohan was in fact, more powerful than he was.

What happened when Gotenks Boo fought Gohan? What happened when Gohan Boo fought Super Vegito? Boo got washed. Basically, the more powerful guy with the bigger dick(s) is usually taking the cake. Those two instances in no way change that.

So no.

Gotenks' power was contradicted by Super Boo and Toriyama, who wrote the statement and Ultimate Gohan fell victim to a coy plan orchestrated by Super Boo. Like-wise, Bootenks and Boohan failed against Goku & Vegeta due to the benefits of the Metamoran.

As I said, there is more going on than just who has the bigger dick. As the story progresses, the guy with the larger dick is actually the loser in the larger context of the story.

Gohan and the others are unconscious and thus a non-factor. If that were the case, then why was he so scared to go outside to fight Super Boo?

They didn't know whether or not they would revert to their normal size again. The artwork proves it as Goku & Vegeta have surprised looks on their faces once they arrive outside of Boo's body. One of them says 'we did it!'; they rescued everyone successfully and falsely believe they have reverted Boo back to normal, which would mean they could hold their own.

If he would've been able to hold his own as a Super Saiyan 2, then surely that would've given Gohan enough time to wake up.

One Super Saiyan 2 held his own against Innocent Boo. Because they believe their plan worked, they can definitely find a way to manage something.

I keep seeing you mention Super Saiyan 3 and how it'd piss Vegeta off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Goku's reluctance to showing Super Saiyan 3 that pissed Vegeta off

Yup

If so, then how is continuing to hide Super Saiyan 3 beneficial to keeping Vegeta's rage in check? He's already made it clear that Goku's reluctance to show the form disgusted him, so in what world is Goku continuing on with the same behavior a smart thing to do? There would've been no repercussions. What is Vegeta going to do? It's completely out of nowhere. Seriously.

Goku ran to the World of the Kais as opposed to simply transforming pronto. He wants to think up an alternative plan that doesn't involve Super Saiyan 3. He has already stated that the form shouldn't be used in a place where time exists because it uses up too much energy, so even if you wish to disregard Vegeta's pride, we've got Goku's reluctance towards using it that occurs several pages earlier.

Argument: Goku used it against Bootenks
Counter-Argument: He was forced too.

Argument: He was forced inside Boo's body.
Counter-Argument: It wouldn't of mattered. Their power dropped.

Argument: Why doesn't he go outside and finish Boo?
Counter-Argument: They have a plan of reverting Boo back to normal and rescuing everyone successfully.

The only conclusion is that he didn't want to fight as a SSj3 originally and there were other factors at play.

He's adamant about not merging, actually. He wanted to fight with his "own power" now that Boo was fighting alone as well. There were no other alternatives. A planetary explosion did nothing, fusion was no longer an option, so it' was clearly going to be Super Saiyan 3 Goku fighting Kid Boo.

Goku runs away to try to think of an alternative to defeating Majin Boo. Super Saiyan 3 isn't a factor until Vegeta accepts it. Goku was willing to go as far as to let innocent people die while they think of a solution.

Super Saiyan 3 is already off the tables until Boo forces their hand. Goku explained why during the early Boo Arc anyways

What's clear is Goku knows he can't play any games because the universe is at stake

Goku played Rock Paper Scissors with Vegeta and he was willing to let billions of people die in the Universe, even his own son, while he tried to think of an alternative solution that didn't involve Super Saiyan 3.

So that takes care of that.

--and says he's going to fight at his best right from the jump. The reader knows that his full-power is Super Saiyan 3, so that'd be his best.

The reader knows Goku doesn't believe Super Saiyan 3 should be used in this world. Goku states this. Goku also asks for Vegeta's permission and Vegeta agrees.

Goku was simply telling Vegeta that it'll likely end before he could get a turn.

After Vegeta instructs him to use SSj3.

That's not the same as asking someone for permission to do something. He does not need Vegeta's approval to use Super Saiyan 3.

He does and he did.

You're also assuming Goku and Vegeta think the same when they don't.

Goku's already stated why he doesn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 in the first place. Vegeta's anger towards using it before only strengthens the case.

Vegeta judged Kid Boo on his size, Goku judged him on the fact that he's become more manageable.

You're making the Goku part up completely. The Herms translations have no evidence to prove that.

Based on the artwork, Goku appears to be rather cocky and actually seems to be judging Boo based on his size.

They're not the same person, so how they assess things aren't remotely related. Goku never once said anything about Kid Boo being stronger than he thought, either. The only thing I recall Goku commenting on is his regeneration and how he seemingly ignores all damage.

Vegeta is a Super Saiyan 2 and the same power as Goku. If Kid Boo was stronger than he imagined, than it would be the same for Goku. Their original determination regarding Kid Boo is based on the false pretense that they've successfully rescued everyone and reverted Boo enough until he's become manageable for a pair of Super Saiyan 2s.

Even after seeing how strong both are, Vegeta questions how Goku was able to fight against someone as strong as Kid Boo. Sensing isn't enough.

He was just surprised. He didn't question how it was possible.

So that AT Q&A is only about Kid Boo now? Vegeta's admission doesn't matter. Goku planned on fighting with his all before Vegeta says anything. His all isn't Super Saiyan 2.

Goku only uses Super Saiyan 3 after Vegeta's admission.

I don't need common sense. Goku literally says he's going fight Kid Boo with his all before Vegeta even says anything.

The contradiction comes when Goku asks Vegeta if it's okay that he use Super Saiyan 3.

What you're saying is that Goku is yet again telling another lie to the reader, despite the fact that it's ridiculous and unnecessary by this point in the series. If Goku says he's going to go all-out right from the start, it means just that. You're the one trying to change the meaning of his statement to continue on with your "He didn't want to annoy Vegeta" theory.

His stated why, to use, the reader, he doesn't believe in using SSj3 in the real world. And your speculative conjecture is contradicted when he asks for Vegeta's admission.

Now why would you say something like that? I don't have any disrespect for you, I just simply don't agree with a lot of the things you say. I also have no issue when people dislike my ideas on anything. That's like the entire point of debating.

Nah, you absolutely dislike it when someone disagrees with you. I know that for a fact.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

It goes against the entire story.

Because you say so? No.

It doesn't take from the fact that SSj3 was out of the question due to the fact their power had shrunk.

Doesn't matter. Goku said their only chance at beating boo without fusion is reverting him down to Fat Boo. Super Saiyan 2 Goku can't beat Fat Boo, and we've already seen how Vegeta did.

So your comment doesn't appear to have much value, unfortunately.

Luckily they escape, and no, Goku couldn't beat him with SSj3 during that time.

Goku said he was going to have to defeat Boo in order to find an exit. Super Saiyan Goku ain't beating Super Boo, so he would've eventually went Super Saiyan 3.

They don't know Pure Boo is as power as Goku SSj3 yet.

They do when Goku admits they wouldn't be able to deflect his attack. At the very least, that places Kid Boo's attack above anything they could do as a Super Saiyan 2.

Goku has the Genki Dama. Which would have been efficient based on their belief that Kid Boo was actually weak enough for them to fight.

Which is a non-factor when there's a no life on the planet.

Gotenks' power was contradicted by Super Boo, whom only saved him for the purpose of defeating Chou Gohan.

There's no contradiction. He was furious at Gotenks because of his power and couldn't do anything to defend himself when Gotenks got serious. If he hadn't reverted, Boo would've been finished. No point in saving him if he won't even be around long enough to absorb him. Also, Gohan sat there and gave Gotenks the ok to demolish Boo. Gohan knows how strong Super Boo is and thinks Gotenks can handle him without his help. So no.

Super Boo prepared for that and eventually gained the upper-hand, he only needed to make sure that Gohan was in fact, more powerful than he was.

Stop making excuses. He got stomped, raged and exploded to throw everyone off. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the stated one. Read his dialogue to Gohan and say he wasn't upset at the embarrassment Gohan just unleashed on his ass. You'd be telling a lie.

Gotenks' power was contradicted by Super Boo and Toriyama, who wrote the statement and Ultimate Gohan fell victim to a coy plan orchestrated by Super Boo. Like-wise, Bootenks and Boohan failed against Goku & Vegeta due to the benefits of the Metamoran.

It was contradicted by nothing. Gohan flat-out gave him the go ahead to fight Super Boo alone, further showing that Super Boo is not stronger than Gotenks. You continuously trying to dismiss everyone else as stupid or unable to assess power doesn't change that. The stronger fighter showed dominance in all of those situations. That's the point.

As I said, there is more going on than just who has the bigger dick. As the story progresses, the guy with the larger dick is actually the loser in the larger context of the story.

The overall context shows that power matters. Super Boo would've never beaten Gohan without absorbing Gotenks and Goku would've never been able to handle Gohan Boo without Vegito. So yes, power still matters.

They didn't know whether or not they would revert to their normal size again. The artwork proves it as Goku & Vegeta have surprised looks on their faces once they arrive outside of Boo's body. One of them says 'we did it!'; they rescued everyone successfully and falsely believe they have reverted Boo back to normal, which would mean they could hold their own.

Yet Goku says "Yes!! They're back to normal!!"

So he's more surprised that everyone else is back to normal without those pods around them than regaining his size. Usually when there's surprise, it's accompanied by a !! or s ? throughout the story. You have a facial expression which could just be Goku feeling funny upon regaining his size, while I have Goku being excited that all of the others are back to normal.

One Super Saiyan 2 held his own against Innocent Boo. Because they believe their plan worked, they can definitely find a way to manage something.

Not when Fat Boo decided to fight back, no.

Goku ran to the World of the Kais as opposed to simply transforming pronto. He wants to think up an alternative plan that doesn't involve Super Saiyan 3.

And since fusion was out of the question, Super Saiyan 3 was their only option. Hence why Goku will go all-out from the beginning.

He has already stated that the form shouldn't be used in a place where time exists because it uses up too much energy, so even if you wish to disregard Vegeta's pride, we've got Goku's reluctance towards using it that occurs several pages earlier.

Which was in regards to him burning through his remaining time on Earth. Time is no longer a factor now that he's alive and not on a time limit. Oh, and several pages earlier was Goku telling Vegeta why he hid Super Saiyan 3 from him in their battle. Goku's reluctance is about a point in time which has been done for quite awhile and is no longer relevant.

Argument: He was forced inside Boo's body.
Counter-Argument: It wouldn't of mattered. Their power dropped.

You keep saying this and keep forgetting that he had a mini Boo right in front of him that he was going to fight. He can't beat Super Boo as a Super Saiyan, so using Super Saiyan 3 was inevitable.

Argument: Why doesn't he go outside and finish Boo?
Counter-Argument: They have a plan of reverting Boo back to normal and rescuing everyone successfully.

A plan of reverting him back to Fat Boo, which doesn't happen. When it's clear that he's reverting no further than Super Boo, Goku decides to stay inside instead of confronting him outside. Why? Because they weren't strong enough to do it without fusion. It means they have no chance against Boo while unfused. Add any spin you want, but that speaks volumes.

The only conclusion is that he didn't want to fight as a SSj3 originally and there were other factors at play.

The only conclusion is that Super Boo was too powerful for them to fight and Goku would rather hide inside of Boo forever than challenge him.

Goku runs away to try to think of an alternative to defeating Majin Boo. Super Saiyan 3 isn't a factor until Vegeta accepts it. Goku was willing to go as far as to let innocent people die while they think of a solution.

Super Saiyan 3 is a factor because Goku says he's going to fight all-out. Vegeta saying he wants to see it doesn't mean Goku letting him know that he might not get a turn doesn't mean never had any intention of using it. This was already explained. There were no other solutions outside of Super Saiyan 3 because they weren't going to merge.

Super Saiyan 3 is already off the tables until Boo forces their hand. Goku explained why during the early Boo Arc anyways

Yeah, he explained why when telling Piccolo how Super Saiyan 3 diminished his time. Keep it in context.

Goku played Rock Paper Scissors with Vegeta and he was willing to let billions of people die in the Universe, even his own son, while he tried to think of an alternative solution that didn't involve Super Saiyan 3.

This has nothing to do with Goku saying he's going to fight Kid Boo with his all for the universe. Goku said it and you're changing the meaning of his statement for your own convenience. If Goku says he's going to go all-out, it means he's going to go all-out. Super Saiyan 2 isn't Goku fighting all-out, Super Saiyan 3 is. We even have Piccolo talking to Goku about fighting all-out against Fat Boo earlier--and this obviously pertained to his Super Saiyan 3 power.

Goku was going to use Super Saiyan 3 regardless if Vegeta said anything or not. Attempts to alter statements doesn't change that.

The reader knows Goku doesn't believe Super Saiyan 3 should be used in this world. Goku states this. Goku also asks for Vegeta's permission and Vegeta agrees.

The reader knows Goku doesn't believe Super Saiyan 3 should be used when it reduces his remaining time on Earth, actually. Good thing that scenario is long gone. And no he doesn't. Goku says he's going to go all-out, Vegeta says he wants to see Super Saiyan 3, and Goku informs him that he might not get his turn. Goku never asked for anything, nor did Vegeta say anything after telling Goku he wanted to see the form, anyway.

After Vegeta instructs him to use SSj3.

"Let me see" is not instructing. You're acting like Vegeta is giving him an order when he's simply letting him know he wants to see the form with his own eyes. You're way of looking at his is way overblown.

He does and he did.

Goku intending to fight Kid Boo at full-power says you're wrong.

Goku's already stated why he doesn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 in the first place. Vegeta's anger towards using it before only strengthens the case.

"I had to save it for later just in case."

You're referring to a part of the story that no longer exists and trying to prolong it. Does not compute. Also, Vegeta's anger would've been directed at Goku's refusal to use it. All you're saying is Goku would be more willing to draw Vegeta's ire even more, which goes against what you're saying entirely.

You're making the Goku part up completely. The Herms translations have no evidence to prove that.

Vegeta was the only one who made a statement on his size. Goku's comment has nothing to do with Kid Boo's size, as he just says they might be able to manage something now. I didn't make anything up. If Kid Boo's someone they can manage something against, it means the previous Boo wasn't manageable--making Kid Boo more manageable by default. I didn't make up anything.

Based on the artwork, Goku appears to be rather cocky and actually seems to be judging Boo based on his size.

Based on the artwork, Goku's sly smirk clearly shows he wasn't asking Vegeta for permission. You wanna play the artwork game? Because I'd be down.

Vegeta is a Super Saiyan 2 and the same power as Goku. If Kid Boo was stronger than he imagined, than it would be the same for Goku. Their original determination regarding Kid Boo is based on the false pretense that they've successfully rescued everyone and reverted Boo enough until he's become manageable for a pair of Super Saiyan 2s.

Goku never said Kid Boo was stronger than he imagined, so you're assuming again. Vegeta said both Boo and Goku were stronger than he imagined, so he's judging them both based on the power they're displaying. Goku had access to a much higher level of power than Vegeta did, so his comprehension towards their own capabilities is much different. Oh, and Goku says he's going to fight Kid Boo all-out, which means he's going to use his full-power. Kid Boo proving to be stronger than he thought doesn't says nothing about his (non-existent) willingness to use Super Saiyan 2. That's your own conjecture.

The fact that Vegeta said Goku never planned on giving Vegeta a chance since the very beginning pretty much throws away the whole notion of Super Saiyan 2 ever being a factor, anyway.

He was just surprised. He didn't question how it was possible.

"Kakarot was fighting a guy like this?" demonstrates that Boo being stronger than he imagined is nothing compared to actually fighting him. That's the point.

Goku only uses Super Saiyan 3 after Vegeta's admission.

"It's more like "Are you sure you're OK with this?" Which I guess is sort of like asking permission, but not exactly."

Thanks, Herms!

The contradiction comes when Goku asks Vegeta if it's okay that he use Super Saiyan 3.

There is no contradiction. You think he's asking for permission, while Herms says the line doesn't need to be taken that way. I'll go with that explanation.

His stated why, to use, the reader, he doesn't believe in using SSj3 in the real world. And your speculative conjecture is contradicted when he asks for Vegeta's admission.

When telling Piccolo about the form and how it affected his time in the living world. You keep leaving that part out. And no, Herms clarified above that the line doesn't need to be looked at as permission seeking.

Nah, you absolutely dislike it when someone disagrees with you. I know that for a fact.

Your facts aren't really facts, then, are they? At least Herms made it clear that the line doesn't need to be taken in the way you think it needs to be, though.

 

[kriss-]

Doesn't matter. Goku said their only chance at beating boo without fusion is reverting him down to Fat Boo. Super Saiyan 2 Goku can't beat Fat Boo, and we've already seen how Vegeta did.

So your comment doesn't appear to have much value, unfortunately.

Vegeta did fairly well on his own. With the help of another Super Saiyan 2, they can probably manage something; hence Goku's comment when he talks about a Boo he believes met the criteria of his plan.

Goku said he was going to have to defeat Boo in order to find an exit. Super Saiyan Goku ain't beating Super Boo, so he would've eventually went Super Saiyan 3.

He was bluffing because he knew of his handicap.

They do when Goku admits they wouldn't be able to deflect his attack. At the very least, that places Kid Boo's attack above anything they could do as a Super Saiyan 2.

Goku could have instantly turned Super Saiyan 3. He had enough time when a form of Boo who was significantly more powerful rushed him, but he doesn't in this scenario.

There has to be a reason. What do you think it is?

Which is a non-factor when there's a no life on the planet.

The Dragonballs can take care of that. Goku has also shown the capability of gathering energy from across the entire Universe when he used it in the World Of The Kais, which is in a separate realm from the mortal Universe.

So you're argument is a fallacy me thinks.

There's no contradiction. He was furious at Gotenks because of his power and couldn't do anything to defend himself when Gotenks got serious. If he hadn't reverted, Boo would've been finished. No point in saving him if he won't even be around long enough to absorb him. Also, Gohan sat there and gave Gotenks the ok to demolish Boo. Gohan knows how strong Super Boo is and thinks Gotenks can handle him without his help. So no.

Toriyama intentionally tells us that Boo only saved Gotenks to defeat Gohan and that Gohan was who challenged his throne as number 1, not Gotenks.

Speculative conjecture is contradicted from Toriyama's pen and Super Boo's comment.

Stop making excuses. He got stomped, raged and exploded to throw everyone off. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the stated one. Read his dialogue to Gohan and say he wasn't upset at the embarrassment Gohan just unleashed on his ass. You'd be telling a lie.

Gohan says Super Boo had to fight him to make sure that Gohan was definitely above him. He then orchestrates the plan to absorb him, which works.

The bigger dick theory is invalidated because in the larger context of the story, it was Super Boo who won.

It was contradicted by nothing. Gohan flat-out gave him the go ahead to fight Super Boo alone, further showing that Super Boo is not stronger than Gotenks. You continuously trying to dismiss everyone else as stupid or unable to assess power doesn't change that. The stronger fighter showed dominance in all of those situations. That's the point.

See my point above.

The overall context shows that power matters. Super Boo would've never beaten Gohan without absorbing Gotenks and Goku would've never been able to handle Gohan Boo without Vegito. So yes, power still matters.

The story shows that there are alternative to sheer power.

Super Boo intentionally kept Gotenks around to defeat Gohan.
Super Boo's plan overwhelmed the more powerful Gohan.
The genius of Goku & Vegeta took Boohan down to a less powerful level.
Goku used the Genki Dama because his SSj3 form wasn't enough.

In the larger context of the story, the bigger power isn't what determines who defeats who. Therefore, when Goku says 'we can manage something', he's obviously referring to other means of victory as opposed to just sheer power. Likewise, when he runs to the World Of The Kais, he tries to find a way to defeat Boo.

Yet Goku says "Yes!! They're back to normal!!"

So he's more surprised that everyone else is back to normal without those pods around them than regaining his size. Usually when there's surprise, it's accompanied by a !! or s ? throughout the story. You have a facial expression which could just be Goku feeling funny upon regaining his size, while I have Goku being excited that all of the others are back to normal.

Yuppers.

'"Yes!!' So the context of the statement and facial expression validate my theory.

Not when Fat Boo decided to fight back, no.

He couldn't one shot Vegeta and intentionally tried to kill him, he couldn't

Two Super Saiyan 2s are more than capable of giving Innocent Boo a run for his money.

And since fusion was out of the question, Super Saiyan 3 was their only option. Hence why Goku will go all-out from the beginning.

Goku explains why he doesn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 at the beginning of the Boo Saga. So your explanation is reaching at best.

Hence why Goku will go all-out from the beginning.

As a Super Saiyan 2.

Which was in regards to him burning through his remaining time on Earth. Time is no longer a factor now that he's alive and not on a time limit. Oh, and several pages earlier was Goku telling Vegeta why he hid Super Saiyan 3 from him in their battle. Goku's reluctance is about a point in time which has been done for quite awhile and is no longer relevant.

Nope.

Goku: It’s a technique you should only use in the afterlife
Goku: It uses up too much energy and you get completely exhausted all at once.

Context: Goku looks really tired
Piccolo: “So becoming this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing in the lower world uses up that much ki power?...”

Chapter: 513 (DBZ 319), P1.2
Context: after Goku drops out of Super Saiyan 3
Goku: “Da-dammit…When I was dead, it was no problem at all…It seems that in the end, becoming a Super Saiyan 3 with a living body eats up an excessive amount of ki

It's all about Ki power and how it would actually make him really weak, really quickly. It's too much of a gamble. So he doesn't want to use it and doesn't believe he should unless he absolutely has to.

Making things up again I see.

You keep saying this and keep forgetting that he had a mini Boo right in front of him that he was going to fight. He can't beat Super Boo as a Super Saiyan, so using Super Saiyan 3 was inevitable.

If he used Super Saiyan 3 you would have a point. But he didn't, so my theory is more logical.

A plan of reverting him back to Fat Boo, which doesn't happen. When it's clear that he's reverting no further than Super Boo, Goku decides to stay inside instead of confronting him outside. Why? Because they weren't strong enough to do it without fusion. It means they have no chance against Boo while unfused. Add any spin you want, but that speaks volumes.

They believe it does once Super Boo reverts to Pure Boo. Hence why they're so happy and cocky. However, unknowingly to them, he just got stronger.

Goku still had options on the table that didn't involve Super Saiyan 3, which shouldn't be used in the real world and in a living body.

The only conclusion is that Super Boo was too powerful for them to fight and Goku would rather hide inside of Boo forever than challenge him.

Incorrect.

He knew he had time and tries to orchestrate fusing with Vegeta. However, when Boo shows up, under normal conditions, the duo could manage something, but because their power dropped in proportion to their size, it doesn't work. Hence why Goku believes it would have in the beginning.

Super Saiyan 3 is a factor because Goku says he's going to fight all-out.

Only after Vegeta's approval.

Vegeta saying he wants to see it doesn't mean Goku letting him know that he might not get a turn doesn't mean never had any intention of using it. This was already explained. There were no other solutions outside of Super Saiyan 3 because they weren't going to merge.

Goku asks if it's alright, so he's making sure that it's okay for him to use it.

Yeah, he explained why when telling Piccolo how Super Saiyan 3 diminished his time. Keep it in context.

Debunked above.

This has nothing to do with Goku saying he's going to fight Kid Boo with his all for the universe. Goku said it and you're changing the meaning of his statement for your own convenience.

You argued that Goku couldn't play games and had to go all out, but he played a game a few scans ago. So your argument is moot. And you can't argue that it's because it occurred before he states what he said, because you'd have to believe that he only ever believed the Universe to be in danger at that specific time and not before, this creates a logical fallacy.

If Goku says he's going to go all-out, it means he's going to go all-out. Super Saiyan 2 isn't Goku fighting all-out, Super Saiyan 3 is. We even have Piccolo talking to Goku about fighting all-out against Fat Boo earlier--and this obviously pertained to his Super Saiyan 3 power.

Goku was going to use Super Saiyan 3 regardless if Vegeta said anything or not. Attempts to alter statements doesn't change that.

Goku only used SSj3 after Vegeta approved of it. He was adamant because Vegeta wouldn't to get a turn. During this point, they don't know how powerful Kid Boo actually is, so you cannot use Vegeta's fight against Kid Boo as a counter-argument. Also, Majin Vegeta alone had Innocent Boo on the ropes, two Super Saiyan 2 fighters could probably manage something against him, so you can't use that either.

The reader knows Goku doesn't believe Super Saiyan 3 should be used when it reduces his remaining time on Earth, actually.

No.

It's to do with how much Ki energy SSj3 wastes.

Good thing that scenario is long gone.

I debunked your argument above.

And no he doesn't. Goku says he's going to go all-out, Vegeta says he wants to see Super Saiyan 3, and Goku informs him that he might not get his turn.

Please don't ommit Goku's statement of:

Goku: “Is that alright?

In other-words, he's asking Vegeta if that's okay.

You've lost this debate my friend.

Goku never asked for anything, nor did Vegeta say anything after telling Goku he wanted to see the form, anyway.

Goku only used it after asking if it was alright.

"Let me see" is not instructing. You're acting like Vegeta is giving him an order when he's simply letting him know he wants to see the form with his own eyes. You're way of looking at his is way overblown.

"Let me see" is Vegeta asking Goku to see Super Saiyan 3.

Goku intending to fight Kid Boo at full-power says you're wrong.

Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much.

No, Goku was clearly enjoying the fight.

"I had to save it for later just in case."

You're referring to a part of the story that no longer exists and trying to prolong it. Does not compute. Also, Vegeta's anger would've been directed at Goku's refusal to use it. All you're saying is Goku would be more willing to draw Vegeta's ire even more, which goes against what you're saying entirely.

Goku doesn't believe he should use Super Saiyan 3 in the living world because of how it absorbs Chi energy and will actually make him weaker. You've also been discredited above.

Vegeta was the only one who made a statement on his size. Goku's comment has nothing to do with Kid Boo's size, as he just says they might be able to manage something now. I didn't make anything up. If Kid Boo's someone they can manage something against, it means the previous Boo wasn't manageable--making Kid Boo more manageable by default. I didn't make up anything.

The artwork shows Goku face and he's obviously quite cocky. This isn't an example of someone judging someone else based on their Chi.

Speculate some more.

Based on the artwork, Goku's sly smirk clearly shows he wasn't asking Vegeta for permission. You wanna play the artwork game? Because I'd be down.

Goku's expression shows it.
Even the Viz translation affirms to my idea.
The Herms translations left it subjective without any concrete answer.

So based on everything we have at our disposal my argument holds more merit.

Goku never said Kid Boo was stronger than he imagined, so you're assuming again. Vegeta said both Boo and Goku were stronger than he imagined, so he's judging them both based on the power they're displaying. Goku had access to a much higher level of power than Vegeta did, so his comprehension towards their own capabilities is much different.

Oh, and Goku says he's going to fight Kid Boo all-out, which means he's going to use his full-power.

This has been discredited above.

Kid Boo proving to be stronger than he thought doesn't says nothing about his (non-existent) willingness to use Super Saiyan 2. That's your own conjecture.

The fact that Vegeta said Goku never planned on giving Vegeta a chance since the very beginning pretty much throws away the whole notion of Super Saiyan 2 ever being a factor, anyway.

Despite being at the battlefield and being able to sense Chi, Vegeta is unable to comprehend just how strong Boo is. Yet you think Goku could before actually fighting Boo?

Your perspective creates a paradox at best.

"Kakarot was fighting a guy like this?" demonstrates that Boo being stronger than he imagined is nothing compared to actually fighting him. That's the point.

Yup, he was surprised.

"It's more like "Are you sure you're OK with this?" Which I guess is sort of like asking permission, but not exactly."

Thanks, Herms!

Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright?

Simple.

There is no contradiction. You think he's asking for permission, while Herms says the line doesn't need to be taken that way. I'll go with that explanation.

Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright?

When telling Piccolo about the form and how it affected his time in the living world. You keep leaving that part out. And no, Herms clarified above that the line doesn't need to be looked at as permission seeking.

I debunked this above.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta did fairly well on his own. With the help of another Super Saiyan 2, they can probably manage something; hence Goku's comment when he talks about a Boo he believes met the criteria of his plan.

Fairly well until Boo decided he wanted to fight back. You've added Super Saiyan 2 into the mix, btw. It's never mentioned anywhere that they can manage with Super Saiyan 2.

He was bluffing because he knew of his handicap.

Handicap has nothing to do with anything. He can't beat him at the same size.

Goku could have instantly turned Super Saiyan 3. He had enough time when a form of Boo who was significantly more powerful rushed him, but he doesn't in this scenario.

It means even Super Saiyan 3 Goku wouldn't have been able to deflect the attack because of its size and power.

There has to be a reason. What do you think it is?

Because he couldn't stop the attack in any form.

The Dragonballs can take care of that. Goku has also shown the capability of gathering energy from across the entire Universe when he used it in the World Of The Kais, which is in a separate realm from the mortal Universe.

The Dragon Balls were a non-factor as well. Also, Goku thought the Genki-Dama was a stupid idea when Vegeta brought it up because it was never successful. What makes you think his opinion would've been any different here?

So you're argument is a fallacy me thinks.

Considering Goku would've never thought about using a Genki-Dama, I'd say it's irrelevant as a point altogether.

Toriyama intentionally tells us that Boo only saved Gotenks to defeat Gohan and that Gohan was who challenged his throne as number 1, not Gotenks.

That doesn't mean he's stronger than Gotenks. Gohan just handed Boo his ass and thought Gotenks was more than enough.

Speculative conjecture is contradicted from Toriyama's pen and Super Boo's comment.

Gohan thinks Gotenks is stronger than Boo. The battle shows that Gotenks had an upperhand. Why didn't Boo just block his attacks if he was stronger?

Gohan says Super Boo had to fight him to make sure that Gohan was definitely above him. He then orchestrates the plan to absorb him, which works.

This doesn't change my point.

The bigger dick theory is invalidated because in the larger context of the story, it was Super Boo who won.

Boo needed a bigger dick and brains to gain the upperhand, so not really.

See my point above.

There is no point above.

The story shows that there are alternative to sheer power.

Yet it was sheer power that made the difference in those situations.

Super Boo intentionally kept Gotenks around to defeat Gohan.

He didn't intentionally keep nothing around. He got lucky Gotenks reverted before finishing him off. Sounds like he wasn't as in control as you would like to think.

Super Boo's plan overwhelmed the more powerful Gohan.

Which required him to gain more power and intelligence, proving that power is still the main factor.

The genius of Goku & Vegeta took Boohan down to a less powerful level.

But still needed more power (Fusion) to fight him.

Goku used the Genki Dama because his SSj3 form wasn't enough.

The Genki-Dama proved to be far more powerful than anything else he could've done, so power was still a factor. If it wasn't, then Kid Boo would've never been wiped out.

In the larger context of the story, the bigger power isn't what determines who defeats who. Therefore, when Goku says 'we can manage something', he's obviously referring to other means of victory as opposed to just sheer power. Likewise, when he runs to the World Of The Kais, he tries to find a way to defeat Boo.

There are no other means of victory. Also, you have no idea what Goku could've been referring to to say it wasn't about power.

'"Yes!!' So the context of the statement and facial expression validate my theory.

"Yes!! We're back to normal!!" would've validated your theory. Emphasis is on the others returning to normal, not Goku and Vegeta. Therefore, your "theory" is still just that.

He couldn't one shot Vegeta and intentionally tried to kill him, he couldn't

He disabled him, which is more than enough. Vegeta sacrificing himself did nothing to Fat Boo, and he already admitted that a bunch of them fighting Fat Boo together means nothing. They need a "special plan" to stop Boo.

Two Super Saiyan 2s are more than capable of giving Innocent Boo a run for his money.

Not according to Vegeta and Piccolo. Goku's too scared to fight Fat Boo with Super Saiyan 2, so another weakling wouldn't make a difference.

Goku doesn't even disagree when Piccolo says Vegeta or Gohan would've made no difference fighting alongside Goku. His focus was entirely on fusion because fighting Boo separate would've been useless. Looks like that's debunked.

Goku explains why he doesn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 at the beginning of the Boo Saga. So your explanation is reaching at best.

Which has nothing to do with the current situation whatsoever.

As a Super Saiyan 2.

That's holding-back, which isn't what he said.

Goku: It’s a technique you should only use in the afterlife
Goku: It uses up too much energy and you get completely exhausted all at once.

Are you gonna keep ignoring context for the sake of doing it? The conversation was about Super Saiyan 3 and why it ate through his time.

Context: Goku looks really tired
Piccolo: “So becoming this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing in the lower world uses up that much ki power?...”

Chapter: 513 (DBZ 319), P1.2
Context: after Goku drops out of Super Saiyan 3
Goku: “Da-dammit…When I was dead, it was no problem at all…It seems that in the end, becoming a Super Saiyan 3 with a living body eats up an excessive amount of ki

It's all about Ki power and how it would actually make him really weak, really quickly. It's too much of a gamble. So he doesn't want to use it and doesn't believe he should unless he absolutely has to.

Show me the part where Goku got really weak, really quickly. Was he weakened after transforming against Gotenks Boo? Goku's trouble with Super Saiyan 3 in a living body confirmed the issues with the form, but it never drained him all at once. If that was the case, he would've never maintained it at all.

If he used Super Saiyan 3 you would have a point. But he didn't, so my theory is more logical.

Acknowledging the fact that Super Saiyan Goku wouldn't beat Boo at the same height gets the point across perfectly fine.

They believe it does once Super Boo reverts to Pure Boo. Hence why they're so happy and cocky. However, unknowingly to them, he just got stronger.

Goku isn't cocky, he's excited that Kid Boo isn't as much of a threat as the Boo he'd rather be permanently merged against. He never got stronger because Goku sees no reason to merge against him.

Goku still had options on the table that didn't involve Super Saiyan 3, which shouldn't be used in the real world and in a living body.

Since Vegito or Gogeta isn't one of them, the last option on the table is Super Saiyan 3. Anything else is completely outta thin air.

Incorrect.

Not according to the story.

He knew he had time and tries to orchestrate fusing with Vegeta. However, when Boo shows up, under normal conditions, the duo could manage something, but because their power dropped in proportion to their size, it doesn't work. Hence why Goku believes it would have in the beginning.

Vegeta said he was never going to merge with Goku again and he made that clear enough. Goku wasn't under the impression that their power dropped before trying to open a hole through Boo, so why was he so scared beforehand? Obviously because they couldn't manage anything against Super Boo.

Only after Vegeta's approval.

He isn't asking for his approval. Now you're getting to the point where you're acting as if your own interpretation of the line over takes precedence of what it actually means. Goku isn't asking for permission and he made it clear that he's fighting with his all from the get go.

Goku asks if it's alright, so he's making sure that it's okay for him to use it.

I don't think you understand what asking for permission really means. He's double-checking to see if Vegeta is fine not getting his turn, not if it's okay for him to transform.

Debunked above.

You went entirely out of context, so perhaps in your mind you debunked it.

You argued that Goku couldn't play games and had to go all out, but he played a game a few scans ago. So your argument is moot.

Was Goku saying he's going to go all-out before or after the game? Because the RPS game was over when Goku said he was going to go all-out last I checked. If any thing is moot, it's your "theory" of Goku referring to Super Saiyan 2 as fighting with his all when Super Saiyan 3 is the undisputed meaning of him doing just that.

And you can't argue that it's because it occurred before he states what he said, because you'd have to believe that he only ever believed the Universe to be in danger at that specific time and not before, this creates a logical fallacy.

Until you prove Super Saiyan 2 is Goku going all-out, your entire theory is and will continue to be fallacious.

Goku only used SSj3 after Vegeta approved of it. He was adamant because Vegeta wouldn't to get a turn. During this point, they don't know how powerful Kid Boo actually is, so you cannot use Vegeta's fight against Kid Boo as a counter-argument.

Goku was going to use it whether Vegeta said he wanted to see it or not. You can't actually prove otherwise, while I have Goku saying he's going to fight all-out. Goku has an idea of his power based on his attack, and he never once expresses any surprise about Kid Boo being a lot stronger than he expected or anything. Vegeta's fighting against Kid Boo is a perfect counterpoint because Goku knew from the point that he won the RPS game that he wouldn't give Vegeta a chance.

Also, Majin Vegeta alone had Innocent Boo on the ropes, two Super Saiyan 2 fighters could probably manage something against him, so you can't use that either.

If Trunks never intervened, Boo would've eventually turned Vegeta to candy. He never once had him on the ropes.

It's to do with how much Ki energy SSj3 wastes.

Then he would've never used it. You can't say he's weary of using the form in general and then say he's perfectly fine using it because Vegeta wanted to see it. Vegeta's "approval" didn't suddenly make the drawbacks not as bad as he originally thought.

I debunked your argument above.

In your dreams.

Please don't ommit Goku's statement of:

Goku: “Is that alright?

In other-words, he's asking Vegeta if that's okay.

You've lost this debate my friend.

Except the part where Herms said the line isn't really a form of asking for permission. He's just making sure Vegeta's okay with the fact that he might not get his turn. He's not making a choice to use Super Saiyan 3 on the spot based on Vegeta's answer. The fact that he already has it in mind to fight with his all proves that.

Goku only used it after asking if it was alright.

Goku saying he's going to go all-out says otherwise.

"Let me see" is Vegeta asking Goku to see Super Saiyan 3.

Which says nothing about what Goku's original intentions were. Prove that he had a lesser form in mind when he said he was going to fight all-out. You can't.

No, Goku was clearly enjoying the fight.

What does this have to do with anything? You think he would've enjoyed the fight even more as a Super Saiyan 2?

Goku doesn't believe he should use Super Saiyan 3 in the living world because of how it absorbs Chi energy and will actually make him weaker. You've also been discredited above.

In other words, we can now ignore this ridiculous notion on Vegeta's approval being necessary for Goku to use the form, right? Because you're saying his reluctance is derived from the drawbacks of the form. He either didn't want to use Super Saiyan 3 because it sucks or because he didn't want to annoy Vegeta. You can't pick both.

The artwork shows Goku face and he's obviously quite cocky. This isn't an example of someone judging someone else based on their Chi.

You're trying to separate the two. Kid Boo's diminished size goes hand-in-hand with his diminished power. They just sensed Boo's increase in power a few moments ago; they're not going to totally forget how to sense Chi shortly after that. Looking a certain way=/=Feeling a certain way

Speculate some more.

Continue thinking your opinion on a line takes precedence over the actual translator some more.

Goku's expression shows it.

That Kid Boo's weaker? Of course.

Even the Viz translation affirms to my idea.

"Yeah. We can take him." means Goku lost his ability to decipher whether the opposition was weaker now?

The Herms translations left it subjective without any concrete answer.

Someone regarded as cocky wouldn't say "we might" in any situation, That expresses doubt, which is the exact opposite thing an arrogant person would say.

So based on everything we have at our disposal my argument holds more merit.

According to you.

This has been discredited above.

It wasn't discredited. You simply not agreeing with it isn't the equivalent of that.

Despite being at the battlefield and being able to sense Chi, Vegeta is unable to comprehend just how strong Boo is. Yet you think Goku could before actually fighting Boo?

Your perspective creates a paradox at best.

Are Goku and Vegeta the same characters? They don't need to think the same. The fact that Goku never once says Kid Boo is a lot stronger than he thought perfectly illustrates that Boo was about as strong as he was expected. The only issue Goku was having was getting by his regeneration, which is stated.

Simple.

The translator of said line says it isn't as straightforward as you're making it out to be. If it was, he would've made that clear. Likewise, he says that Goku is clearly talking about fighting without holding-back. Simple and utterly sinks the idea of him using Super Saiyan 2.

Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright?

Good thing your interpretation isn't as strong as you'd like it to be.

I debunked this above.

[/quote][/quote]

You didn't, nor have you shown one example of Goku getting weak really quickly.