i think 1 of my fav. aspects of one-piece is...

[Fantastische Hure]

but u just said that was said as far back as alabasta, i think. did luffy lose his power just so crocodile's power-loss could be justified?

 

[Kyo]

What do you mean exactly? Not following.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i meant luffy & co's power supposedly being affected by their emotions (i think)

 

[Kyo]

Well in the case of Crocodile and Luffy post-Marineford I think it's meant to be some kind of trauma or at the very least significant disillusionment, not just emotions in general.

 

[ahill1]

Isn't Crocodile's statement about his scars healing in reference to his battle with Luffy in Alabasta?

 

[SSJ2]

Nah.

 

[ahill1]

why so?

 

[theallpowerfulpuipui]

My favorite aspect of One-Peace is when Luftwaffe found the other piece.

 

[SSJ2]

[mention]ahill1[/mention]

i heard that it might have been because of crocdile losing his ambition he once had. i think i once saw a point being made that luffy & co. also lost their power when something affected their emotions (i can't remember which point was mentioned exactly), so that might make sense that way.

This. It's revealed that Crocodile dreamed of being the Pirate King and had his dream crushed in the New World. The context around the quote is about the New World in general, as Crododile said he would return as proof that he has healed.

 

[ahill1]

can you post the statement? the context was about the new world, but that doesn't have to mean the injure was also in reference to one inflicted in the new world.

 

[SSJ2]

Marineford makes it evident that his "scars" have nothing to do with losing to Luffy. The fact that Crocodile was willing to team up with Luffy, yet immediately became enraged upon seeing Whitebeard is pretty telling. Losing to Luffy was nothing more than a catalyst that helped him regain his former ambition. Nothing about that loss was scarring to Crocodile.

 

[ahill1]

Marineford makes it evident that his "scars" have nothing to do with losing to Luffy. The fact that Crocodile was willing to team up with Luffy, yet immediately became enraged upon seeing Whitebeard is pretty telling. Losing to Luffy was nothing more than a catalyst that helped him regain his former ambition. Nothing about that loss was scarring to Crocodile.

With the way Mr. 1 said, I am not even sure if the scar is something physical. Might be a psychological scar, as Luffy was in sorrow due to his last loss. The way Crocodile lost when venturing in the NW may have left a psychological scar in him, which he hadn't lost until then.

Btw, you're trying to apply a connection there that while understandable, doesn't have to exist. The fact that he was fully healed was a reason for him to want to return to the NW, but that has no saying in the origin of such scar, assuming it was something physical. He could very well be thinking "I've healed from my former battle and as proof of that I'll go to the NW". It's not because the NW was mentioned right after that there's a intrinsic bond between it and the scars.

 

[SSJ2]

What on earth are you talking about? I've been arguing that he has been psychologically scarred the entire time. He lost his ambition after losing to WB in the New World as I said above. His lifelong dream was to become the Pirate King, which came to an end once he reached the New World. Losing to Luffy had no impact on this dream because it was already shattered. It's shown pretty clearly in the Baroque Works cover pages that Crocodile refused to escape prison because he "didn't feel like it". His loss to Luffy made him reconsider his ambitions, and it wasn't until Luffy stormed Impel Down that he decided he would return to the game and eventually go back to the New World. It's pretty clear.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't have to exist" when everything I've brought up is directly shown in the manga. We see Crocodile dreaming of being the Pirate King. We see him becoming enraged upon seeing the man who defeated him in the New World, thus ending his dream. Crocodile was already scarred when he faced Luffy in Alabasta, hammering home the point that Luffy was yet another rookie who was way in over their head. Don't you see it?

 

[Kyo]

ahill your argument is completely incoherent I'm sorry to say. I have no idea what you're trying to prove.

 

[ahill1]

What on earth are you talking about? I've been arguing that he has been psychologically scarred the entire time. He lost his ambition after losing to WB in the New World as I said above. His lifelong dream was to become the Pirate King, which came to an end once he reached the New World. Losing to Luffy had no impact on this dream because it was already shattered. It's shown pretty clearly in the Baroque Works cover pages that Crocodile refused to escape prison because he "didn't feel like it". His loss to Luffy made him reconsider his ambitions, and it wasn't until Luffy stormed Impel Down that he decided he would return to the game and eventually go back to the New World. It's pretty clear.

There's been a misunderstanding then. I brought up a psychological scar precisely because I thought you were referring to physical scars, as in, his body seemed impaired in a way and it's just now healed.

I'd argue the Whitebeard's war was the turning point then. He lost to Luffy but he still clearly had no will in facing the NW as he refused to leave impel down as he said.

Now that I know you're talking about a psychological scar, it seems pretty stretching that Crocodile's ambitio would have so much influence on his overall power. If it were something physical we'd at least have something more tangible to lean on.

 

[SSJ2]

There is no way to logically rationalize Crocodile gaining so much power by the time of Marineford, but there is nothing physically wrong with Crocodile. I still don't know what you're trying to argue if you think that wasn't the cause of his power loss.

 

[ahill1]

There is no way to logically rationalize Crocodile gaining so much power by the time of Marineford, but there is nothing physically wrong with Crocodile. I still don't know what you're trying to argue if you think that wasn't the cause of his power loss.

I was initially thinking that the scars would be in reference to Luffy's fight but if we're talking about a psychological scar then yeah it's likely referring to the NW.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

To add to what SSJ2 has said with Crocodile's scars obviously referring to how the New World previously destroyed his ambitions (something he makes apparent when talking to Luffy during their rematch), let's say for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate we say Crocodile was referring to a physical wound. In that context, considering he'd already shown greater feats at Marineford, then wouldn't his scars in that context be more likely to refer to his wounds against Jozu? Moreover, if he was referring to physical wounds, wouldn't that imply his Marineford self was even weaker than in Alabasta?

 

[ahill1]

To add to what SSJ2 has said with Crocodile's scars obviously referring to how the New World previously destroyed his ambitions (something he makes apparent when talking to Luffy during their rematch), let's say for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate we say Crocodile was referring to a physical wound. In that context, considering he'd already shown greater feats at Marineford, then wouldn't his scars in that context be more likely to refer to his wounds against Jozu? Moreover, if he was referring to physical wounds, wouldn't that imply his Marineford self was even weaker than in Alabasta?

That's a fair point.

If his Marineford self was being held back more so than his Alabasta self, then this wouldn't account for his better and more impressive feats at Marineford in comparison to Alabasta.