If Raditz thinks no one can amp

[FeatsofPower]

Talked with @GreatSaiyaman123 before about this.

Raditz is shocked that they are able to amp. He's completely befuddled by someone concentrating ki.

This theme gets passed down to Vegeta and Nappa, but they seem to forget about the ki amp part of it and talk about suppression more.

Is this just AT figuring it out as he goes along?

How is ki amp so rare? I get suppression is rare, but ki amp seems like a strange one to be rare.

So does this mean the original Kamehameha is not amped at all?

 

[SSJ2]

I think Toriyama was making it up as he went along.

Ki amp does seem to be relatively rare though. Freeza’s soldiers were among the strongest in the galaxy and they needed a device to produce a Ki blast.

Only select members from warrior races like Saiyans or Namekians were able to do it. Also only several humans out of millions/billions.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I feel this is one of those topics Evil Vegeta would have something pretty good to say.

 

[FeatsofPower]

So Ki amps probably don't occur?

I feel this is one of those topics Evil Vegeta would have something pretty good to say.

Agreed, why not reach out to him? Can he come here or he doesn't want to?

 

[Kyo]

The original KHH must be amped, otherwise what distinguishes it from any other ki blast?
But then, the original KHH is not presented as being superior to "other ki blasts" when it first appears. It's one of the first ki blasts we ever see.

 

[Animelover5487]

Yes ki amps don't occur for the Saiyans abd Freeza's force. The ability to alter a battle power was completely foreign to all the villains at that point, Freeza created transformations for this very purpose.

The only contradiction is Vegeta beam clashing KKx3 Goku's KHH with his Galick Gun and even that could be argued due to the Kaioken strain.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The original KHH must be amped, otherwise what distinguishes it from any other ki blast?

Roshi had no other blasts. The Kamehameha is the blast he created.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The only contradiction is Vegeta beam clashing KKx3 Goku's KHH with his Galick Gun and even that could be argued due to the Kaioken strain.

This is a good point, but the fact Vegeta is shocked bothers me. I don't really understand how to make that all work.

No ki amp is starting to make a lot more sense, it's pretty crazy to think about.

 

[Dagon]

Vegeta refers to "changing battle powers" more in the sense of hiding true power. Without the fixation on BoZ Goku's KHH being over 2x his detected level later fights would be much easier to interpret. Especially in cases like Vegeta vs Recoome where Vegeta's best effort can hardly damage Recoome who isn't even twice as strong as Vegeta.

In Gohan's cases where his rage spikes his power it's not the Masenk or Kamehameha that is given credit for raising his level but Gohan's emotions and inner potential.

Some card game figures for Carddass put Goku and Piccolo's powers at end of DB and beginning of Z in the 500-600 range, so maybe that's something to consider. Unweighted Goku in the Raditz battle is even given a BP of 810.

 

[Father]

Maybe amping to such a degree (x2 or more)
and being able to control output from abysmal levels to jumping to higher levels instantly was the most surprising factor in all of this.
the control to such a degree is probably
what’s foreign to most of them.

But I’m firmly on the side of @GreatSaiyaman123 when it comes to the majority of the Freeza soldiers not being able to output more than their PL.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Grandpa Gohan got hit with a full on Original Kamehameha, he's taken out of the fight and most likely severely weakened him, but it didn't evaporate him or anything.

Honestly, it feels like AT didn't think this thing through all that much. It's much more in line with how he wants the battle to feel more than any real system, I just can't wrap my head around how he looked at it though.

 

[Animelover5487]

Grandpa Gohan got hit with a full on Original Kamehameha, he's taken out of the fight and most likely severely weakened him, but it didn't evaporate him or anything.

When was Gohan hit with an original KHH?

 

[FeatsofPower]

When was Gohan hit with an original KHH?

At Baba's tournament when he fought Goku.

Man, I don't think we can figure out ki blasts and their effect. This has always been one of the hardest issues ever.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The original KHH must be amped, otherwise what distinguishes it from any other ki blast?
But then, the original KHH is not presented as being superior to "other ki blasts" when it first appears. It's one of the first ki blasts we ever see.

Random blast = Random punch
Strongest blast = FP punch

Man, I don't think we can figure out ki blasts and their effect. This has always been one of the hardest issues ever.

Sometimes they're like a giant punch, other times they blow up, and other times they burn. It's a mess.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Sometimes they're like a giant punch, other times they blow up, and other times they burn. It's a mess.

Yeah, I mean, the entire amazing thing about Dragonball is ki blasts. Ki blasts are like one of the top 3 things in this series, no one else has it quite like this. Being able to shoot huge beams of energy that blow up and destroy planets is what makes Dragonball amazing. But it’s just so wild to try to calculate such things.

We are indeed making progress. Once we establish a full blown working list, we can start trying to look at it in a more complex way. One step at a time.

We will figure something out for sure, let’s keep hacking away.

How is Vegeta amped but Raditz doesn’t know? Secret?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How is Vegeta amped but Raditz doesn’t know? Secret?

Raditz never saw Vegeta gathering all his energy to blow up a planet before.

Also, even if it's ignored later, Raditz is seeing a >2x amp right in front of him. Vegeta can't do that. The 2x amp gets sort of brushed under the carpet, but as you said it it's replaced by them talking about suppression instead. Just by starting to fight, Gohan's power goes from 981 to 2800!

 

[Yoshi]

I think Vegeta and Nappa were just more experienced on the battlefield than Raditz. This also applies to Ginyu as well, who knew what suppression was while Jheese didn’t.

 

[SIAD]

@MikaelHarding What do you think would happen?

 

[MikaelHarding]

@MikaelHarding What do you think would happen?

Yeah

 

[MikaelHarding]

@MikaelHarding What do you think would happen?

Maybe