Imperialdramon: Dragon-Mode vs Vamdemon

Papasmurf

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did he fight mugendramon i can't remember (if i can ask)? also i don't think i remember him fighting venomvamdemon, i think if that happened i'd have remembered that more.
Mugendramon one-shotted him with his two cannons in the first episode the Dark Masters appeared in, forgot if he did anything to him when they fought him for real in that factory city since I didn't like that portion much. Angemon did his Heaven's Knuckle combined with Angewomon's Holy Arrow but it didn't even scar VenomVamdemon and both he and Angewomon were just completely outmatched, illustrating how superior Megas were to prior stages.
 

Fantastische Hure

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this is a random-chain i think for villains, does this look abt ok (if u can & want to answer):

apocalymon > piemon > mugendramon > metalseadramon > pinochimon >/~/< metaletemon > vamdemon > etemon (network) > etemon > devimon (giant)

i'm not sure where venomvamdemon'd be exactly i think
 
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Papasmurf

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I think MetalEtemon might be above Pinnochimon when considering his dark spirits deluxe attack did fatal damage to a Mega in a single attack, but Pinnochimon has the advantage in his home terrain due to that giant mechanoid of his mansion being seemingly above even WarGreymon. I'd probably put VenomVamdemon above those two but below the other Dark Masters.
 

Fantastische Hure

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maybe he was the lowest ultimate-level digimon :king:king:king

i knw this is probably very, very obvs but by the end of digimon-adventure all of the heroic digimon can defeat black-gears devimon, right (if i can ask)?! :troll:troll:troll
 

Papasmurf

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maybe he was the lowest ultimate-level digimon :king:king:king

i knw this is probably very, very obvs but by the end of digimon-adventure all of the heroic digimon can defeat black-gears devimon, right (if i can ask)?! :troll:troll:troll
Depends, tbh. Angemon's feats are wildly inconsistent so it's hard to judge what level Devimon was in while he was in that black gears form, exactly. On one hand, Angemon needing to gather everyone's digivolution power suggests he was above a lot of Ultimates (Perfects), but there's scenes like Angemon managing to repel half of VenomVamdemon's attack without that suicidal power up, so I would say Angemon did indeed get stronger through his various battles prior to Piemon, and everyone should be able to kill giant Devimon except maybe Lilymon, who's consistently portrayed as the weakest Ultimate.
 

Fantastische Hure

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wasn't there dialogue like yamato asking how they are going to be able to defeat a digimon that's higher than devimon to gennai (i think that was to gennai) & gennai answering by saying evolving to perfect-form & devimon warning them that there are even higher digimon out-there & maybe even more statements (if u can & want to answer)? so maybe all perfect-level hero can defeat devimon
 

Papasmurf

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wasn't there dialogue like yamato asking how they are going to be able to defeat a digimon that's higher than devimon to gennai (i think that was to gennai) & gennai answering by saying evolving to perfect-form & devimon warning them that there are even higher digimon out-there & maybe even more statements (if u can & want to answer)? so maybe all perfect-level hero can defeat devimon
Keep in mind that they had 7 Digimon on their team. Even if Etemon was stronger than giant Devimon (which we don't know since he got stomped by MetalGreymon who was getting owned by Vamdemon much later), the other Ultimates don't all need to be above Devimon to defeat him as a team.

I really don't know where to place Black Gears Devimon because he needs to be above base Angemon, and Devimon even seemed confident in crushing Angemon in his bare hands. And that same Angemon, without any further battle experience except in his Patamon form (which really duzzin mean jack), was able to nearly equal Vamdemon when teamed up with a half dead WereGarurumon. I'll just say Angemon got stronger though since other than his lackluster performance in 02, he is seen consistently doing better and better than in his first couple of appearances, and when he appeared to confront Vamdemon, he even told Vamdemon to surrender immediately after hitting him with a regular Heaven's Knuckle and greatly damaging him.
 

Fantastische Hure

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well, i rly don't knw either i think. i think etemon is clearly above dark-gears devimon but that's mostly because of quite a-few statements saying that (i think maybe some more than i posted iirc) & that not being directly contradicted iirc & in a series where there's fighting that jst seems to make sense.

for wot it's worth takeru said patamon got higher when patamon asked him, after taichi said they all got higher since the beginning, but even taichi saying that seems to be in doubt at the end of episode 41 (i think).
 

Fantastische Hure

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also devimon says "i was so close", maybe they are even which might make sense in lore as-well:

 

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Well Devimon planned to rule the digital world which is unheard of for a champion level Digimon. I think his black gears form might be stronger than most people give him credit for, esp since Angemon even without any true battle experience (fighting PicoDevimon really doesn't count imo) was much more effective against Vamdemon than any of the Ultimates except Angewomon. That, and even though he was powered up by absorbing the dark network, he was arguably a notch below MetalGreymon what with how his energy blast got cut up by MetalGreymon's claws, and how he got one-shotted by a Giga Destroyer (even if it seemed to disrupt the dark cables he was attached to).
 

Fantastische Hure

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how can he rule the digital-world with piemon around (if i can ask)? :troll:troll:troll

so do u actually think black-gears devimon > etemon, maybe even vamdemon (if i can ask)?
 

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I think Black Gears Devimon might be stronger than Etemon, I just don't really know because plot often determines the result of battles like these rather than strict adherence to power levels and type matchups. On one hand MetalGreymon gets treated like a joke by Vamdemon while he definitely feared Angemon to an extent, and MetalGreymon was at least as strong as Dark Network Etemon, but you could just say Angemon gained experience from killing Devimon and then participating in that fight against Vamdemon for the first time, and that experience wasn't reset by his death and rebirth. It's pretty hard to say honestly, and even the exp points from fighting Devimon thing seems like a hard sell when Patamon couldn't even digivolve at will until reunlocking his Angemon form against Vamdemon that night when he and WereGarurumon fought him together.

Again, while I don't think Adventure's power chains are a huge mess like GT or DBS, they're still wildly dependent on the situation and the plot's needs. Which I guess a lot of shonen are guilty of like how the Thunder Brothers did more damage to Tessaiga's sheath shield than a fucking Kongosoha did much later on (same attack that'd rip through Naraku's strongest barriers like a knife through butter), as well as Zabuza being implied relevant to Shinobi War arc Kakashi despite how ridiculous that is when Kakashi fought FAR stronger opponents than Zabuza and did decently even before the war. But two wrongs don't make a right. It just muddles everything and makes it hard to judge. I want to keep things simple and have Etemon or at least Dark Network Etemon above giant Devimon, but Angemon's performance against Vamdemon and Piemon makes that simple power chain a headache to rationalize. And one thing I hate most of all is being dishonest for the sake of making an argument in my favor. I'd rather be uncertain than a liar.
 

Fantastische Hure

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didn't vamdemon also escape from a fight with another digimon (if u can & want to answer)? i can't remember maybe that was lilymon i think.
 

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maybe vamdemon feared the attack that defeated devimon. the 1 where angemon sacrificed himself i think.
 

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didn't vamdemon also escape from a fight with another digimon (if u can & want to answer)? i can't remember maybe that was lilymon i think.
Vamdemon left her to die. He cursed her and made her a darkened, frozen shell of her former self. He more or less left her to die, it's not really an escape. My take is that the writers didn't want to bother explaining how Lilymon can stay in her Ultimate stage for a fucking hour despite the fact that MetalGreymon, WereGarurumon, AtlurKabuterimon etc. only lasted for a very short time in their first appearance, so they were like "Bah, let's just paralyze her and bring her back when the final fight against Vamdemon is about to start, easier to write the plot." Same reason why Imperialdramon was paralyzed by SkullSatamon like a fucking pussy, they wanted to remove the 01 Digimon from the plot and weaken the other children by taking away their non-Jogress Ultimate forms. Because with Imperialdramon, HolyAngemon and many other Ultimates around, the main villains in Oikawa's crew were so horribly outmatched that it wasn't even funny. And other villains/antiheroes like Demon's crew and BlackWarGreymon weren't exactly on their side either.
 

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maybe vamdemon feared the attack that defeated devimon. the 1 where angemon sacrificed himself i think.
Pretty sure his greatest fear was the 8th Digidestined whose Digimon was fated to kill him, he feared her the most. Angemon was the next biggest fear, and I don't really see why Angemon would sacrifice himself in the real world when the series establishes that you can only revive yourself in the Digital World, especially when there's 6 other Ultimates around to help him. In the battle against Devimon it was only desperate enough for that suicidal maneuver since... everyone else was stuck on Shellmon/Leomon level. Vegeta wouldn't have suicided against Fat Boo if he had several other SSJ2+ tiers helpig him.
 

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