Is a kaioken times 30 possible?

[RollBack]

when i saw first saw the saiyan saga. i thought times 4 is all he could handle. untill the kaioken times 20. so can he reach 30?

 

[Yoshi]

I don’t think he can power up past x40, otherwise he might use it over SSJ.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think the instability of Kaio-ken makes going that high impractical, and even if he could stack, say, 10x or higher onto SSJ, SSJ3 would still drain less power and strain the body less

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think DBS Goku would’ve tried that if it was possible.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think DBS Goku would’ve tried that if it was possible.

UI makes it redundant anyways

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

UI makes it redundant anyways

Yeah, but Toei could've milked it before Goku mastered it. They probably thought it was stupid for Goku to go from barely using 10x to breaking the 20x barrier though.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, but Toei could've milked it before Goku mastered it. They probably thought it was stupid for Goku to go from barely using 10x to breaking the 20x barrier though.

What I find stupid is that he never even attempted it at all in the Zamasu arc outside of that one kick, only to go ahead and begin to use 20x without issues the very next arc. Him tapping into KKx10 would actually kind of explained how his KHH broke through Zamasu's Holy Wrath, but nooooope. Toei had to drop the ball as always.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What I find stupid is that he never even attempted it at all in the Zamasu arc outside of that one kick, only to go ahead and begin to use 20x without issues the very next arc. Him tapping into KKx10 would actually kind of explained how his KHH broke through Zamasu's Holy Wrath, but nooooope. Toei had to drop the ball as always.

The biggest sin was Goku not using it during the beam struggle.

 

[ahill1]

I think Goku likely could but I'd think 50x would be the absolute maximum due to SSJ being superior to it always imo and even then, maybe not even that much can be achievable. Goku was 8,000 and could handle a normal Kaioken... He was 90,000 later on and said he could endure a Kaioken x10. He got a little bigger than a 10x boost and could use 10x the Kaioken which makes sense in a linear way... But then he got a huge 33x+ Zenkai and had big trouble with x20, more so than with Kaioken x3 before, so I think the linear progression is broken after the 10x, I mean, it pretty much seems to be the case. Maybe x20 can even be the limit yeah.

 

[ahill1]

Heck, I think Goku's mastery over the Kaioken x20 was slightly better than his mastery over the brief instant he used Kaioken x4 vs Vegeta. His mastery over x3 was better than his post Zenkai mastery over x20, so even before the 10x, I think the linear progression isn't so linear, it's already not so proportional to battle power increase.

 

[RollBack]

UI makes it redundant anyways

kaioken on top of ui would go crazy

 

[Hector]

I don't think kaioken is possible in high power levels, otherwise Cell would have used it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell did say he could use Kaio-Ken I think. But he could be wrong since he never tried.

 

[Papasmurf]

Cell did say he could use Kaio-Ken I think. But he could be wrong since he never tried.

He said he could use the genkidama, never said anything about kaio-ken

 

[ahill1]

I wonder why Toriyama didn't mention Kaioken. Maybe on purpose as it could mean giving Cell a tool to power up, which could be inconvenient many times.

I think Cell was portrayed as SSJ-like in the CGs. He had a similar aura to MSSJ Goku when powering up, vs Goku, powered up to grade 3 in two situations, had a SSJ2 aura when coming back and seemed to have a grade 2 like aura when FP. Cell didn't get Saiyans cells from when they were SSJ but I think just having their cells allowed Cell to push himself into it. I think he only get those similar/kind of SSJ states when perfect though.

 

[Papasmurf]

Cell already had an SSJ aura in his lower forms and his future counterpart was seen with an MSSJ aura

 

[ahill1]

I think the MSSJ aura is still a little tough to hammer it down as one, specially since the mastering SSJ happened after Goku and Gohan in the RoSaT and during the CGs. I think Cell Games Cell had a MSSJ type of transformation with the additional bonus of going grade 2 and 3 unlike typical MSSJ Saiyans, but not Cell who had yet to reach perfection. What seals the deal to me is Cell exhibiting clear signs such as grade 3 and SSJ2 who are 100% clear, so it's easier to argue there he was sharing SSJ traits. Before though, I chalk that up more as auras that aren't so much of a defining trait of MSSJ as it isn't that clear of a significant change being used without necessarily implying that.

 

[Papasmurf]

His aura in his 1st and 2nd forms was identical to a normal Super Saiyan's. I think past a certain point of power, Cell and the Cell Jr.s are all Super Saiyan-like. The only instance in which Cell had no aura while powered up was in Gingertown, and that was likely due to his power dropping from rematuring from his egg form.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I think Cell could be looked as a normal SSJ there, but Piccolo in his fight with 17, in the first portion of the fight, also exhibited a similar aura... Yellow-ish when powering up and then that white colored aura. It could be just a representation of some level of power, which could be a possibility too.

It's really tough to distinguish a MSSJ aura from a normal SSJ aura. It'd be nitpicking details, but normal SSJ seems to have less pronounced spikes, with the aura being more tied to the body without spikes popping up much. Goku seemed to have those spikes popping out more when in MSSJ and so did Cell vs him. Vegeta and Trunks vs the Cell Juniors had too, but less intense than Vegeta... Though their aura seemed to have those spikes more pronounced than when Vegeta fought 19 for example.

Though Cell from future Trunks' timeline also showed those more spiked white-colorished aura, similar to MSSJ... While he shouldn't be different from the Cell who almost killed Kamiccolo. So I think there may not even have been an intention for the MSSJ aura to look different from SSJ... More like an artistic expression, I'd say. Maybe Imperfect Cell's aura is indicative of a SSJ like aura or just that he is powered up in comparison to before (aka Ginger Town Cell), much like Kamiccolo also had that kind of aura while pre Kami Piccolo did not. Though in the CGs, since grade 3 and SSJ2 are clear traits that have obvious distinguishable features, I'd say it's more arguable Cell showed 100% SSJ like forms there, while before, possible, but not necessary.

 

[Papasmurf]

Piccolo stopped showing an SSJ-like aura after his fight with #17 while Imperfect Cell was still seen with it after the CG, so I think the intention was to portray him as a pseudo-SSJ. He just became able to tap into Grade 3 only in his Perfect Form.