Kaioshin vs Android 17

[GSM123]

He literally commented on Kaioshin's power lmao. And it's not like he can just look and know Kaioshin is a god or anything either.

 

[SSJ2]

Can't sense him.

 

[ahill]

That's just fundamentally wrong. Piccolo can't sense Kaioshin. If he gave up based on power it was due to an assumption at best.

Can't Piccolo sense Shin though?

 

[SSJ2]

No?

 

[ahill]

No?

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P10.2
Context: as Piccolo and Kaioshin's match begins
Vegeta: “We’ll finally know: just how much is his battle power, which we haven’t even been able to estimate?...”

That's the only piece of evidence we have, as far as the manga goes. And it's not like Vegeta says "his chi is undetectable" or something akin to what Goku says to Spopovich when he was heading to the ring. It could be that Kaioshin was suppressing his powers and so Vegeta couldn't get a feel of it, couldn't it?

 

[SSJ2]

Why is Piccolo the only one who can sense him then? It was painfully obvious that Kaioshin flustered Piccolo and even entered his mind, reading his thoughts. Piccolo backed out of the match because he was overwhelmed by the thought of Kaioshin being the Dai Kaio. Goku was standing 20 feet away from the ring, and you’re telling me that he had to ask Piccolo how strong Kaioshin was? There’s no way that he had a ki signature. The fact that he and Kibito have unusable energy backs this.

 

[ahill]

Why is Piccolo the only one who can sense him then? It was painfully obvious that Kaioshin flustered Piccolo and even entered his mind, reading his thoughts. Piccolo backed out of the match because he was overwhelmed by the thought of Kaioshin being the Dai Kaio. Goku was standing 20 feet away from the ring, and you’re telling me that he had to ask Piccolo how strong Kaioshin was? There’s no way that he had a ki signature. The fact that he and Kibito have unusable energy backs this.

Because Piccolo is fused with Earth's former God... he can get a feel for Kaioshin's identity, so it also wouldn't come as a surprise if he could also have a feel for his own power. If the Kami inside Piccolo instinctively told him that Shin is an important God, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume it'd maybe give Piccolo the abilities to sense him.

 

[SSJ2]

But why would that be? We are shown by Dende that being a god of a planet is more of an honorary title more than anything. Piccolo and Kami are nothing more than a Namekian when it comes down to it, and being a god requires a Namekian of the Dragon Clan. Does being a member of that clan automatically make you a godly being? I really doubt it. Kaio/Kaioshin are born to be gods. Namekian gods are appointed to their roles. I don’t think they share any similarities in terms of ki or abilities. Planetary gods become familiar with the hierarchy above them given that they have the ability to travel between realms. That doesn’t mean they have the ability to sense those godly deities imo.

 

[ahill]

But why would that be? We are shown by Dende that being a god of a planet is more of an honorary title more than anything. Piccolo and Kami are nothing more than a Namekian when it comes down to it, and being a god requires a Namekian of the Dragon Clan. Does being a member of that clan automatically make you a godly being? I really doubt it. Kaio/Kaioshin are born to be gods. Namekian gods are appointed to their roles. I don’t think they share any similarities in terms of ki or abilities. Planetary gods become familiar with the hierarchy above them given that they have the ability to travel between realms. That doesn’t mean they have the ability to sense those godly deities imo.

Well, Kami obviously gave Piccolo some insight as he recognised Kaioshin's status, with the latter pointing out that such was due to his former status as the God of Earth. So if someone could sense Kaioshin, it wouldn't come off as a stretch that this one would be Piccolo. I think there can be more than one reason for Piccolo forfeiting -- Kaioshin's status turning him off from fighting him and a great difference in their power, as it's his response to Goku. Vegeta was the one who told they hadn't been able to estimate their power... with Piccolo it may be different.

But tbh I don't really know. I think this part of the story is pretty open to interpretation.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Can't Piccolo sense Shin though?

For what Super is worth, no. Whilst Dende could sense Beerus, Piccolo had no clue about his identity or power. Even just going by the original manga, Shin only says that Piccolo is starting to realise who he is based on his status as Earth's previous God rather than having a complete understanding, something that'd be very much the case if he could sense Shin's Ki.

 

[Pakl]

Base Saiyans >> Shin is pretty difficult to argue against and they themselves can't be several times above #18 based on the kids' performance against both her and Gohan/Vegeta. Unless Shin can skilfully use his telekinesis or summon Katchin as projectiles without getting hit, #17 takes this.

How is it hard to argue against? the only thing we know for sure is that Kaioshin is leagues below the SSjins. I personally have him around the base saiyans level

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How is it hard to argue against?

Shin was scared of Yakon (something further validated by the Daizenshuu) and recommended they team up against him despite Base Goku being able to put up a fight against him. If Shin was indeed superior to him, he'd have just jumped in himself (especially when his Ki can't be used to revive Boo).

 

[Pakl]

I just think Piccolo wasn't revealing everything after he withdrew. He wanted to ask Kaioshin directly to confirm his suspicions before spreading rumours about who he thought he was.

Agreed. Even the way Piccolo spells the difference between him and Kaioshin is ridiculous. Kaioshin is far below SSjin Teen Gohan, yet worlds above Piccolo? Makes no sense

Couple that with the Fact Kaioshin is said to be able to one shot Freeza is an indication that he is not at the level of the late Cell Saga tiers.

Please give a like if you agree :bitch

 

[SSJ2]

He's weaker than Pui Pui.

 

[Pakl]

He's weaker than Pui Pui.

That's pushing it.