Kid Gohan & Majin Vegeta/Goku SSj2

[kriss-]

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.”
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Vegeta expects Goku to have at least surpassed Kid Gohan.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

A-lot of emphasis is put on Gohans dormant power. Which is the energy lying inside someone. The only event where this was completely brought out occurred during the Cell Games, where Gohan had full access to it. He decreases in power during the Boo Saga and no longer has access to his dormant power. However, he belives that if he can access it, he might be able to manage something.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.5
Vegeta: “By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much

Gohans dormant power is referred to as only being capable of managing something against Fat Boo whereas Majin Vegeta dismisses Fat Boo's battle power as being obsolete in comparison to himself and Goku.

This in turn makes the gap between the characters even greater than originally thought, perhaps by as much as a 20% gap.

Goku Ssj2/Majin Vegeta >> Fat Boo Initial > Kid Gohan Ssj2 =/= Teen Gohan Ssj2 Enraged >> Teen Gohan Ssj2

Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

As Kaboom put it, it’s like Piccolo has a hard time accurately sensing levels of that magnitude because it would be like standing below two sky-scrapers and looking up; trying to determine which is taller

 

[SSJ2]

I don't go by the rage boost theory, so regular SSJ2 Teen Gohan ends up being above initial Fat Boo for me.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

SS2 Teen Gohan is pretty much weak.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

I don't go by the rage boost theory, so regular SSJ2 Teen Gohan ends up being above initial Fat Boo for me.

Is the rage boost theory backed up by the Daiz? I don't remember

@Tosh I'm not seeing where you get Fat Boo inital > Kid Gohan

 

[kriss-]

Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Gohans dormant power is his power that he had when he defeated Cell. He's referencing that. If he can utilize that he would at least be able to do something to Fat Boo Initial, but being capable of doing something is completely different than taking care of the problem. Meanwhile Majin Vegeta laughs at this degree of power. There is a clear distinction between how Gohans true power actually stacks up to the higher degree of Super Saiyan 2 power.

 

[Victorious]

That quote has to do with teen Gohan's true power, not Kid Gohan's. Kid Gohan is gone. And no shit SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is >>> SSj2 Teen Gohan.

 

[kriss-]

That quote has to do with teen Gohan's true power, not Kid Gohan's. Kid Gohan is gone. And no shit SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is >>> SSj2 Teen Gohan.

You're first mistake is assuming Teen Gohan & Kid Gohan are two different people, they are the same people. Kid Gohan is Teen Gohan's pinnacle of power; in other-words, he's the absolute best. Hence why Goku tells him to be as mad as he was before.

Kid Gohan SSj2 =/= Teen Gohan (Enraged) > Teen Gohan SSj2

Is a fact until you can prove otherwise. I've got an additional argument to debunk you, but I'll wait for you to make a statement before I post it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

i agree.

 

[Victorious]

That quote has to do with teen Gohan's true power, not Kid Gohan's. Kid Gohan is gone. And no shit SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is >>> SSj2 Teen Gohan.

You're first mistake is assuming Teen Gohan & Kid Gohan are two different people, they are the same people. Kid Gohan is Teen Gohan's pinnacle of power; in other-words, he's the absolute best. Hence why Goku tells him to be as mad as he was before.

Kid Gohan SSj2 =/= Teen Gohan (Enraged) > Teen Gohan SSj2

Is a fact until you can prove otherwise. I've got an additional argument to debunk you, but I'll wait for you to make a statement before I post it.

Sure they are the same person, but not from the same time period or at the same starting point which means they have different 'ceilings' . Your argument is as pants on head retarded as me saying Kid Gohan vs Cell is 4 year old Gohan vs Raditz pinnicle power. After all, Goku told Gohan to get angry vs Cell as well. And Gohan warned Cell what would happen if he were to get angry like he did vs Raditz or Freeza. Point is logic dictates that if they have different starting points they should have different ceilings.

 

[kriss-]

That quote has to do with teen Gohan's true power, not Kid Gohan's. Kid Gohan is gone. And no shit SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is >>> SSj2 Teen Gohan.

You're first mistake is assuming Teen Gohan & Kid Gohan are two different people, they are the same people. Kid Gohan is Teen Gohan's pinnacle of power; in other-words, he's the absolute best. Hence why Goku tells him to be as mad as he was before.

Kid Gohan SSj2 =/= Teen Gohan (Enraged) > Teen Gohan SSj2

Is a fact until you can prove otherwise. I've got an additional argument to debunk you, but I'll wait for you to make a statement before I post it.

Sure they are the same person, but not from the same time period or at the same starting point which means they have different 'ceilings' . Your argument is as pants on head retarded as me saying Kid Gohan vs Cell is 4 year old Gohan vs Raditz pinnicle power. After all, Goku told Gohan to get angry vs Cell as well. And Gohan warned Cell what would happen if he were to get angry like he did vs Raditz or Freeza. Point is logic dictates that if they have different starting points they should have different ceilings.

Oh believe me, Toriyama has several interviews that proves he hasn't forgotten about his characters ceilings, in better terms; limits. Kid Gohan is the pinnacle of those limits and that's why:

Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P10.2-3
Context: after Boo seems to be dead on arrival
Kaioshin: “Goku and Vegeta are probably having a roughly even fight…I’ll pin Babidi down. After that, if you can manage to defeat Dabra, then Babidi’s scheme will be completely wiped out! So then! Now’s the time to get angry, like Goku said! Get angry and show me your true power! Gohan, peace is almost at hand!”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

So much emphasis is put on his power back then and how it's his true power.

At this point, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Victorious]

Nothing in those quotes needs to imply Teen Gohan 's ceiling is the same as Kid Gohan's. Only that Teen Gohan needs to become angry like Kid Gohan did to in order hit his own ceiling.

 

[kriss-]

Nothing in those quotes needs to imply Teen Gohan 's ceiling is the same as Kid Gohan's. Only that Teen Gohan needs to become angry like Kid Gohan did to in order hit his own ceiling.

Nothing infers that his ceiling changed. By virtue of Occams Razer, that's what it's referring to.

 

[Victorious]

Your view goes against Occam's Razor and common sense. And yes everything infer's his ceiling has changed because his calm power has. How can a guy who's completely slacked for nearly a decade and stated to have become much weaker have the same ceiling as his former self who was much stronger? He can't. Or else there's no reason Gohan vs 2nd form Freeza doesnt have a ceiling on Kid Gohan's level and so on. That's never shown in the series. I'm not going to go back and forth on this, it's fucking stupid.

 

[kriss-]

Your view goes against Occam's Razor and common sense. And yes everything infer's his ceiling has changed because is calm power has. How can a guy who's slacked for nearly a decade and stated to have become much weaker have the same ceiling as his former self or was much stronger? He can't. Or else there's no reason Gohan vs 2nd form Freeza doesnt have a ceiling on Kid Gohan's level and so on. That's never shown in the series. I'm not going to go back and forth on this, it's fucking stupid.

Please list evidence that ascertains that Gohan`s dormant potential changed. Otherwise you`re just talking out of your fucking ass.

 

[Victorious]

Your view goes against Occam's Razor and common sense. And yes everything infer's his ceiling has changed because is calm power has. How can a guy who's slacked for nearly a decade and stated to have become much weaker have the same ceiling as his former self or was much stronger? He can't. Or else there's no reason Gohan vs 2nd form Freeza doesnt have a ceiling on Kid Gohan's level and so on. That's never shown in the series. I'm not going to go back and forth on this, it's fucking stupid.

Please list evidence that ascertains that Gohan`s dormant potential changed. Otherwise you`re just talking out of your fucking ass.

I didnt say anything about 'potential'. I said his current ceiling. There's a difference. The evidence that his current ceiling changed is that his current calm power has changed.

 

[kriss-]

Your view goes against Occam's Razor and common sense. And yes everything infer's his ceiling has changed because is calm power has. How can a guy who's slacked for nearly a decade and stated to have become much weaker have the same ceiling as his former self or was much stronger? He can't. Or else there's no reason Gohan vs 2nd form Freeza doesnt have a ceiling on Kid Gohan's level and so on. That's never shown in the series. I'm not going to go back and forth on this, it's fucking stupid.

Please list evidence that ascertains that Gohan`s dormant potential changed. Otherwise you`re just talking out of your fucking ass.

I didnt say anything about 'potential'. I said his current ceiling. There's a difference. The evidence that his current ceiling changed is that his current calm power has changed.

Oh so you have no evidence? Just as I suspected.

Gohan's 'current' ceiling is his rusty body, his 'actual' ceiling is that of when he was a Kid. He still has that power lingering inside of him.

Definition of dormant:

dor·mant
ˈdôrmənt/
adjective
adjective: dormant
temporarily inactive.

So it's temporarily inactive, but still there. Let's see what Elder Kaioshin has to say about it.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P2.5
Context: Gohan is impatient with the speed of Elder Kaioshin’s power-up
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmm…The fact that we aren’t done yet…Shows that your dormant abilities are extremely incredible.”

Oh, his dormant abilities that he's currently resurfacing for Gohan, ARE STILL THERE, just inactive.

You clearly do not understand this very simply concept. You think that just because Gohan's rusty and isn't quite as powerful means that his dormant power also decreased?

All the evidence disagrees with you.

 

[Victorious]

Neither of us have a direct statement that outright proves our different point of views. if that's what you are asking. My argument is just logical and yours is not and brings in absurdities [like Gohans calm/standard power having nothing to do with his enraged ceiling].

Definition of dormant:

dor·mant
ˈdôrmənt/
adjective
adjective: dormant
temporarily inactive.


So it's temporarily inactive, but still there. Let's see what Elder Kaioshin has to say about it.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P2.5
Context: Gohan is impatient with the speed of Elder Kaioshin’s power-up
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmm…The fact that we aren’t done yet…Shows that your dormant abilities are extremely incredible.”


Oh, his dormant abilities that he's currently resurfacing for Gohan, ARE STILL THERE, just inactive.

You clearly do not understand this very simply concept. You think that just because Gohan's rusty and isn't quite as powerful means that his dormant power also decreased?

Thumbs up. Now you just need to prove something relevant to this argument, That his dormant powers as a teen are as powerful /on the level as his dormant powers at the Cell Games. Which was never stated as far as I remember.

 

[kriss-]

Neither of us have a direct statement that outright proves our different point of views. if that's what you are asking. My argument is just logical and yours is not and brings in absurdities [like Gohans calm/standard power having nothing to do with his enraged ceiling].

Definition of dormant:

dor·mant
ˈdôrmənt/
adjective
adjective: dormant
temporarily inactive.


So it's temporarily inactive, but still there. Let's see what Elder Kaioshin has to say about it.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P2.5
Context: Gohan is impatient with the speed of Elder Kaioshin’s power-up
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmm…The fact that we aren’t done yet…Shows that your dormant abilities are extremely incredible.”


Oh, his dormant abilities that he's currently resurfacing for Gohan, ARE STILL THERE, just inactive.

You clearly do not understand this very simply concept. You think that just because Gohan's rusty and isn't quite as powerful means that his dormant power also decreased?

Thumbs up. Now you just need to prove something relevant to this argument, That his dormant powers as a teen are as powerful /on the level as his dormant powers at the Cell Games. Which was never stated as far as I remember.

Incorrect.

I used an in-universe statement to prove that Gohan's dormant abilities were still there when Elder Kaioshin was tapping into them. Because nothing implies or states that his dormant power changed, the only logical conclusion is to ascertain that they're the same. Disregarding this without any evidence makes you speculative and biased.

 

[Victorious]

Incorrect.[img] I used an in-universe statem... same[/quote] It's the anti thesis of logic.

 

[kriss-]

Incorrect.[img] I used an in-universe statem...e entities and one does not affect the other.