There is.
Gohan says his 'muscle strength increased. Toriyama intentionally says 'muscle strength', as opposed to just saying Gohan became more powerful. There is a clear distinction here.
Kaioshin assumes that it's supposed to make him the greatest fighter in the Universe, Gohan says it was over-rated.
That interpretation would only make sense if Goku and Kaioshin didnt both speculate about Gohan's power, not muscle strength. Goku wouldnt have speculated anything. He would have said "uhh no, he still won't even come close to my SSJ2 he has no shot against Buu".
a) 1. Fat Boo was clearly having fun and enjoying the fight. There is no evidence that he was going all out.
It's never stated Fat Buu wasnt going all out though, unlike Goku. And big deal about Fat Buu smiling or having fun, Kid Buu smiles, has fun and enjoys his fight with SSj3 Goku too. Buu's crazy.
a) 2. Goku calls his strength a lie. That's a pretty self explanatory statement.
It's pretty self explanatory why Goku calls it's a lie. He knows the ki signal doesn't match the fighting ability like it does with most fighters. It would be the truth if it did.
a) 3.Kuririn was able to tell how strong Cell was off one hit. He did the same with Saiyan God Goku. Same principal here.
Exactly, which means if Goku spared with Buu he'd definitely be able to know where Buu stacked if Krillin can know Cell's power based on 1 kick.
Chapter: 479 (DBZ 285), P5.2-4
Context: when the Z Sword breaks, after Gohan trained with it for a day
Gohan: “But…thanks to that, my arm strength has increased a lot. That Z Sword was incredibly heavy, after all…Perhaps this was what they meant by me obtaining the greatest power in the world.”
Kaioshin: “I-I get it…If he’s acquired that much power in his regular state, then if he becomes a Super Saiyan it will become an even more substantial power-up…! Ye-yeah! That’s it! That’s definitely the greatest power in the world…!”
Goku: “…But…Is he greater than Majin Boo?...I wonder…”
3) As Toriyama has told us, the secret to getting stronger is Chi control. Gohan says his 'muscle strength' increased, not his 'Chi control'. So by Toriyama's admission, Gohan didn't increase by much.
yeah, but you can see Kaioshin brings up power, not muscle strength. And Goku appraises hypothetical Super Saiyan Gohan would stack based on Kaioshin's statement ie Power. He's not sure whether or not Gohan is as powerful as Buu.
The absolute limits for any specific character occurs at the end of the Manga's serialization. Everything that came before it; from the Holy Water to Guru's hidden power unlock, are just attempts at reaching their full dormant power. But these attempts are obviously contradicted, so these were never full dormant power unlocks to begin with.
Guru senses Gohan's hidden power and remarks it as incredible, whereas he senses Kuririns and doesn't use the same type of words to describe what he's sensing.
Great Elder: “By the way, despite being an Earthling, you have outstanding power…But it’s a shame that you have power still dormant…”
Chapter: 271 (DBZ 77), P7.4
Context: the Great Elder has his hand on Gohan’s head, sensing his hidden power.
Great Elder: “This is incredible… You have tremendous latent power… You are not an Earthling, are you…?”
Chapter: 274 (DBZ 80), P8.4
Jheese: “This is unexpected. Those little squirts' battle powers surpassed 10,000."
Gohan & Kuririns battle powers after Guru's unlock were close enough to be paired together when Jeice read their battle powers.
Yet before Guru's unlock, he remarks the two's latent ability as being very different. Gohan's is regarded as incredible whereas Kuririn's is still nothing special. Yet after the unlock, they're still close in power. Clearly, Guru sensed something greater in Gohan and he unlocked what he could.
These 'false' limits are continuously contradicted, and the actual limits they had all along were are what we see during the Cell Games or Android Arc.
The 'latent powers' are never stated as "false". You just made that up. They would have been called false latent powers if so. And yeah Gohan had a similar power to Krillin vs Guldo, but certainly novs t Recoome. He's stated to be over 20,000 at times and Krillin gets one shotted, Gohan doesnt.
You also seem to be confusing absolute limits/potential with latent powers/dormant powers. They arent the same.
Goku's limits are clearly implied 3 times by Toriyama in 3 different interviews. He couldn't get stronger without:
a) Using a different type of Chi,
b) Becoming a Saiyan God,
Normal Chi is useless, he's maxed it out. Nothing about his Base strength in Super contradicts End Of Z. He's still at his limits, herpa derp.
Well honestly I don't know enough about Super to debate this topic, havent hardly watched it. I do know Goku End of Z is far beyond Buu saga Goku. So I suspect this is just more bullshit though from you though. Because everything else you try and rationalize about the show that I know about is pure bullshit. You're like the boy who cried wolf for me, I don't trust you. One day i'll watch the series and get back to you on this. When I do we'll get back to this topic.
How does Elder Kaioshin know that a combination of Goku and Gohan can't beat Buutenks? He must know Goku's power right?
Also how does he know where the fusion of Goku and Gohan will stack, if he doesn't know Goku's power? So he knows Goku's power.
List evidence that shows Kaioshin sensing Goku's full power at Super Saiyan 3. Than you may have a point, until than you're reaching.
He didn't know the full extent of Gohan's dormant power until he sat down with him and took a look into it. The Daizenshuu lists SSj3 as drawing the hidden powers of it's user to their limits, so clearly this is contradictory to your argument.
All he knows is:
a) Gohan's hidden abilities were enormous and shocked Goku half way through the ritual.
b) Gohan must be stronger than Goku is.
c) Bootenks is twice as powerful as Super Boo
d) Ultimate Gohan got mopped.
e) Therefore Goku & Gohan will lose, even if they fight together.
Well Elder Kaioshin knows Goku has SSJ, right? Since he says that there's no need for a Goku and Gohan fusion to fuse as SSJ, and they should only fuse in base. So if he knows Goku has SSJ why not SSJ3? Seems obvious to me he knows the depth of Goku's power.
Goku couldn't merge with anyone on Planet Metamor because nobody was close in battle power to him. Even with suppression, it didn't work. The obvious implication here is that both powers need to be close at some transformation for it to work before suppression is considered.
OK, so what evidence is there that Goku would be SSJ3 when he fuses with Ultimate Gohan? Every time we see a metamorian Fusion with Saiyans the Saiyans who perform it are in the same form. The reason they do that must be for practical reasons. So since Gohan can't go SSJ3 that means it would have to be in base.
Your arguments make up principals that are non-existent in the Dragonball world
No my arguments are based on common sense and principals that congruent with consistent observable patterns seen in DB. Your arguments are asspulls with no common sense and defy the patterns. I could argue guys with battle power of 50 could crush guys with battle powers of 50,000 based on skill, or special ability, personality, age, trainer, etc. Sure I could argue that, but is it ever shown? NO. It's just made up bs and contrary to all the observable patterns we see in the DB that they can't. Much like your bullshit of an invisible dormant power that is never tapped or not even capabale of being tapped into until one specific point in the series. Which doesn't even make sense. Everything suggests Gohan's dormant powers are non static and relative to where his normal power stands. This is even stated and later shown Christ sake with the Guru power up. Dormant powers arent random nor certainly static. Nor should they be confused with 'potential' which is what you have sneakily and erroneously tried to do, which is something different entirely. A fighter has a set potential from brith. Kid Goku had the potential to one day become SSJ3 Goku, but he didnt have that power dormant inside him at the time. Sorry you lose. You should know better than to debate with Victorious-sama.
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