Late Freeza Arcs Numbers...

[Yoshi]

Okay, I have extensive knowledge on Battle Powers too, so P asked me to make a thread about the late Freeza Arc numbers. I don't follow the Guidebook numbers for them (120,000,000 and 150,000,000, for example), so my numbers are a lot more bloated.

Overall, I think the biggest issue in this Arc is Piccolo VS Freeza. There are instances where each of them power up in this portion of the Arc.

Here's what I have:

2nd Suppression Form Initial: 1,000,000
2nd Suppression Form Powered Up: 1,200,000
Piccolo Initial: 1,200,000
2nd Suppression Form Full Power: 1,500,000
Piccolo Full Power: 1,800,000
1st Suppression Form: 2,700,000

What do you think? Feel free to post your numbers, as well.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

base goku vs 50% freeza is the biggest gap, i think

 

[p123]

1st Form Freeza 530,000

2nd Form Freeza 1,060,000
~ Power Up 1,250,000
~ Full Power 1,500,000

Piccolo ( Weights ) 1,300,000
~ W/o Weights 1,600,000

3rd Form Freeza 2,250,000

Vegeta 4,000,000

Final Form Freeza ( Initial ) 4,500,000
~ Initial Full Power 6,000,000
~ 50% Power 130,000,000
~ 70% Power 182,000,000
~ 100% Power 260,000,000

Goku 5,500,000
~ KKx10 55,000,000
~ KKx20 110,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 275,000,000



Without getting too technical I'd go with that.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

2nd Form Freeza (initial): 1.000.000
2nd Form Freeza (powered up): 1.500.000 (Piccolo stated his power jumped astoundingly)
Piccolo (initial): 1.600.000
2nd Form Freeza (max): 2.000.000
Piccolo (max): 2.000.000
3rd Form Freeza: 3.000.000
Vegeta: 4.000.000
4th Form Freeza (minimal effort): 4.000.000
4th Form Freeza (speed up): 5.000.000
Vegeta (planet buster): 14.000.000
4th Form Freeza (max pre 50%): 16.000.000 (against Goku, he initially goes back to minimal effort, cause he thinks he's a weakling)
Goku: 7.500.000 (dealt with Minimal Effort Freeza like nothing)
4th Form Freeza (warm up): 8.000.000
Goku (2x kaioken): 15.000.000
4th Form Freeza (max pre 50%/no hands): 16.000.000
50% Freeza: 135.000.000
Goku (10x kaioken): 75.000.000
Goku (battle worn): 6.000.000
Goku (20x kaioken): 120.000.000
Goku (20x kaioken kamehameha): 129.000.000
100% Freeza: 270.000.000
SSJ Goku: 300.000.000

 

[p123]

His Initial 2nd form is stated to be OVER a million. Just saying.

His first power up you are right, it could be huge. Piccolo does say that. It's possible that Piccolo is talking about his transformation more than his power up.

Weighted Piccolo shouldn't be 80% to Freeza's 2nd Form Full Power, he is still able to dodge and move against Freeza. I'd say it's just a step below Zarbon vs Vegeta.

Freeza's initial final form power is enough to make Vegeta wet himself. He's shaken, sweating and in complete awe of Freeza's power. He puts on a good show of confidence, but he isn't any closer to Freeza as he was last time they tried to square up when it was close ( Freeza 1st Form vs Vegeta ), this time though, there's no one to help Vegeta.


It's unlikely that ampification is all that high at this stage. I'd assume Vegeta's Final Crash attack against Reecome was a similar amplification to what he did against Freeza yet Reecome brushed it off easily. I'm not going to make Freeza multiple times stronger than Vegeta because of that personally.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. His first power up you are right, it could be huge. Piccolo does say that. It's possible that Piccolo is talking about his transformation more than his power up.

2. Weighted Piccolo shouldn't be 80% to Freeza's 2nd Form Full Power, he is still able to dodge and move against Freeza. I'd say it's just a step below Zarbon vs Vegeta.

3. It's unlikely that ampification is all that high at this stage. I'd assume Vegeta's Final Crash attack against Reecome was a similar amplification to what he did against Freeza yet Reecome brushed it off easily. I'm not going to make Freeza multiple times stronger than Vegeta because of that personally.

1. Piccolo says ''his power jumped'' which means he's referring to something that just happened in an
instant. The transformation was pages ago.
2. I don't recall Weighted Piccolo doing anything against FP 2nd Form Freeza.
3. Piccolo said that attack would extinguish Vegeta's ki. Even special beam cannon hadn't extinguished Piccolo's
ki. Maybe the attack against Recoome was less charged. At Freeza Saga, everyone produced more and more
amplified blasts out of their asses, even 5 year old Gohan when he attacked 3rd Form Freeza.

 

[p123]

1) Just checked it over, you are right.

2) Piccolo gets caught off guard by Freeza's speed and gets hits really hard twice but is able to avoid the third attack, gets shocked by Freeza's speed as he tries to get away and get pummeled badly.

You know what, I need to make this gap

3) True, but I don't think it has to be multi fold at this point. Vegeta being 66% or so is more than enough of a gap imo. Ki blast logic is terrible. Piccolo never says that, he just asks if he is going to take the planet along with Freeza. More about Vegeta shooting that off at the ground with no regard for his anyone's life.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

2. Freeza shows up behind Piccolo and hits him again. I think, at this point, we can keep 1.25x boost for Piccolo
removing weights.
3. This is in the Viz, but is it the correct translation?

 

[p123]

Dunno, check Herms, I don't know why he would have it considering it is not a power level quote.

 

[ahill1]

1) Just checked it over, you are right.

2) Piccolo gets caught off guard by Freeza's speed and gets hits really hard twice but is able to avoid the third attack, gets shocked by Freeza's speed as he tries to get away and get pummeled badly.

You know what, I need to make this gap

3) True, but I don't think it has to be multi fold at this point. Vegeta being 66% or so is more than enough of a gap imo. Ki blast logic is terrible. Piccolo never says that, he just asks if he is going to take the planet along with Freeza. More about Vegeta shooting that off at the ground with no regard for his anyone's life.

Do you think that Freeza ( Vs Vegeta ) = Freeza ( Vs Goku )?

 

[p123]

Yea I always got the idea in my head that Freeza's initial power looks like this,


Initial Final Form Freeza - Lazy, standard power
~ Actually trying , all out power


So he is using his lazy power, increases his speed when he sees Vegeta is able to somewhat keep up with him, then he goes all out to kick the blast away.

Against Goku initially he is back to his lazy power and then he is rising his power until he reaches his maximum ( kicking the blast away ) when he is using no hands against Goku.

That's debatable but I've never run into anyone who has gone against that much.

 

[ahill1]

Yea I always got the idea in my head that Freeza's initial power looks like this,


Initial Final Form Freeza - Lazy, standard power
~ Actually trying , all out power


So he is using his lazy power, increases his speed when he sees Vegeta is able to somewhat keep up with him, then he goes all out to kick the blast away.

Against Goku initially he is back to his lazy power and then he is rising his power until he reaches his maximum ( kicking the blast away ) when he is using no hands against Goku.

That's debatable but I've never run into anyone who has gone against that much.

But and the power that he used to beat Vegeta? It's the same as he used to kick Vegeta's blast away?

Freeza ( spanking Vegeta ) > Goku base > Freeza ( initial ) > Vegeta ( zenkai ) ?

 

[p123]

Na he seems composed and relaxed. He's putting moderately more effort imo...

Freeza ( Kicking Blast Away ) > Freeza ( Increased Speed ) > Freeza Initial > Vegeta

Freeza could be back at his regular power to beat up Vegeta, he's lost his will to fight, he's helpless. But you can keep him at his increased speed level for that.

 

[Kyo]

What do you think?

Solid all around, although I think the fight between Piccolo/2nd form Freeza pre-full power (the end in particular) gives Piccolo a slight edge.

Something I made off the top of my head:

2nd form Freeza: 1,060,000
- Powered up: 1,250,000
- Full power: 1,525,000
Piccolo: 1,300,000
- Full power: 1,600,000
3rd form Freeza: 2,400,000

I would have to examine the 3rd form Freeza/Piccolo gap more though. I vaguely remember that the last time I did this sorta thing I had this kind of gap, but I used to argue for a smaller one for some reason, I think.

 

[p123]

I guess I'd say 3rd Form vs Piccolo feels somewhere between Reecome vs Vegeta and Freeza vs Vegeta.

Vegeta being 75% of Reecome and 66% of Freeza. Making Piccolo something like 70% of Freeza.

It isn't very scientific, just feels right in terms of dominance.

Vegeta vs Freeza is one of the most dominant fights imo, completely loses him, the epicness of it, the complete helplessness of it.

Could even make more of a gap, Vegeta being 60% of Freeza and Piccol 66% of Freeza if needed. Depends on the dominance shown there.

It definitely should be at least 75% considering the surprise attack.

Hey what do you think of what we are talking about Kyo? 2nd Form FP vs Weighted Piccolo being bigger than we give credit for.

He does have that surprise speed feat we generally attribute to 75% or so.

 

[Kyo]

Hmmm, not really feeling that. Piccolo's not even flying away.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/6.zh_hk_Ultimate/vol_21/DB21_012-uYrwO.jpg
http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/6.zh_hk_Ultimate/vol_21/DB21_013-SXy2p.jpg

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/6.zh_hk_Ultimate/vol_17/DB17_070-ffq9I.jpg

Second feat looks far more impressive to me.

 

[p123]

Oh I see. Piccolo isn't continuing to fly away. He still does get shocked by Freeza which can happen at smaller gaps.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Dunno, check Herms, I don't know why he would have it considering it is not a power level quote.

Well, if i go by Viz, i lower Planet Buster to 10m and the power Freeza used against
it to 12m.

 

[p123]

Why amplified so much?

 

[ahill1]

FREEZA ARC PART 1

Kuririn 260,000

Son Gohan 310,000

Piccolo 340,000

Vegeta 480,000

Freeza ( 1st Form ) 530,000

FREEZA ARC PART 2

Son Gohan ( Enranged ) 1,000,000

Freeza ( 2nd Form Initial ) 1,060,000
~ Powered Up 1,280,000
~ Full Power 1,590,000

Piccolo ( Weighted ) 1,320,000
~ W/o Weights 1,672,000

Son Gohan ( Zenkai ) 1,000,000
~ Enranged 2,300,000

Freeza ( 3rd Form ) 2,400,000

Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 4,200,000

Freeza ( Final Form Initial ) 4,800,000
~ Embarassing Vegeta 6,400,000
~ Fighting Goku 7,400,000
~ No hands 10,000,000

Son Goku 7,000,000
~ Warm Up Over 9,000,000
~ Kaioken x10 90,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 180,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 450,000,000

Freeza ( 50% ) 212,500,000
~ 100% 425,000,000