Let’s be honest…

Classic Adamas

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Nah, not really. His art was GAWD-like and his way of telling the story & making everything look kewl was unmatched.

Ningen means human/people or what-ever.
Honestly I know this is a Dragon Ball forum but I consider Dragon Ball pretty mediocre compared to even other shounen like Fullmetal Alchemist. The story isn't terribly compelling, the characters are one dimensional, the story becomes formulaic and Part 2 looks wildly different to Part 1, which while I think both look good I would have preferred consistency. Toriyama has also admitted to not really thinking ahead and changing his story of a whim (17, 18, Cell etc are all due to his editors input) and he doesn't even remember very basic details of the world he created. Compare that to just about any other popular manga and mangaka I think Toriyama is probably average or below average. I think Monster is a million times better in every aspect I mentioned. Vinland Saga has better art and characters. Berserk and Vagabond also have better art and characters.
 

Yoshi

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I like Toriyama as an author better than Oda, but One Piece is also better than Dragon Ball, and that is also another overrated Shonen when people try to claim it's the best Shonen with series like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Hunter X Hunter, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Attack On Titan out there.
 

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Honestly I know this is a Dragon Ball forum but I consider Dragon Ball pretty mediocre compared to even other shounen like Fullmetal Alchemist. The story isn't terribly compelling, the characters are one dimensional, the story becomes formulaic and Part 2 looks wildly different to Part 1, which while I think both look good I would have preferred consistency. Toriyama has also admitted to not really thinking ahead and changing his story of a whim (17, 18, Cell etc are all due to his editors input) and he doesn't even remember very basic details of the world he created. Compare that to just about any other popular manga and mangaka I think Toriyama is probably average or below average. I think Monster is a million times better in every aspect I mentioned. Vinland Saga has better art and characters. Berserk and Vagabond also have better art and characters.
Berserk even by the end of the Golden Age looks wildly different than the first arc, much less the stuff after it. Artstyle change is the last thing to criticize a series over unless the art actually regressed to a lower or less detailed quality similar to YYH and (most of) Hunter x Hunter.

I also would say DB is less formulaic than many other popular franchises like Terminator and One Piece (another shonen) considering every Terminator movie basically takes place in the middle of a city where two guys from the future converge upon their intended target at the same time and a chase ensues in which the heroes try to survive, blow up a lab or both, and pretty much every OP arc follows a formula as repetitous as Pokemon.

If I had to name AT's main fault it would be that he was influenced by the "Kinnikuman/Hokuto no Ken generation" sts, which were almost as inconsistent as Bleach and just chose to take directions that were most popular with the readerbase rather than consistent to established facts or the narrative of the story, so he didn't bother to keep track of things that could potentially cause plot holes. And by the latter 13-ish volumes of the manga he'd just stopped giving a fuck and made cyborgs stronger than the tyrant of the universe and the Super Saiyan come out of an old guy's lab based on Saiyan arc data and made convoluted time travel that was nearly, again, Bleach tier in consistency. Along with much of the Boo arc just happening for no reason a la the Future Trunks arc of Super, where Boo split in two and spawned an evil version of himself that became stronger when re-fusing for no reason, turning to Kid Boo for no reason when the process was undone, the Kais backstory coming out nowhere for why he became Fatty and so on

But even with that he's a better storyteller than Kubo, Kishimoto, Mitsutoshi and Hiroya Oku combined
 
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Classic Adamas

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I mention the artstyle because I subjectively prefer the earlier styling of Dragon Ball. Berserk looks great the whole way through, I think.
 

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I mention the artstyle because I subjectively prefer the earlier styling of Dragon Ball. Berserk looks great the whole way through, I think.
Because you never read the entire manga from start to finish. Many parts of the OG DB manga had art that fell flat:



100-PojXt.jpg

^here we have Roshi getting ultra bloated arms that don't have proper muscular definition like, say, Zodd from Berserk or SSj grade 3 Trunks in the "Z" portion of the manga. Also his six-pack is improperly drawn, it legit looks like a "three pack," and it isn't just the angling of the fist, other shirtless characters display the same incorrect anatomy like General Blue and Tenshinhan, until the anatomy becomes more correct starting in the 23rd Budokai arc.


^another example of the weird looking six packs in that portion of the series. Other characters around this time like the Dr. Slump characters making a cameo looked "bloated" and less anatomically correct than when they showed up in their own series.

Obviously I'm not gonna shit on you for having a preference but there's a difference between making arms or legs or shoulders overly big for emphasis or because you were too lazy to properly proportion it and just straight up not knowing proper anatomy. AT even said in an interview he conducted with Oda (iirc, could have been Nakatsuru Katsuyoshi though) that he didn't bother studying human male musculature thoroughly. In that regard Z has significantly better art with characters who have defined muscles imo:

DB anatomy:


Z anatomy:

137-N1k0z.jpg


161-Zvqrg.jpg

I also think AT's backgrounds became more detailed when he introduced Kami's palace and other detailed backgrounds than in early DB where you mostly just saw forests, insides of a dungeon etc. All my opinion ofc.
 
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Classic Adamas

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I'm not talking about single panels or pages. I think the entire styling of Part 1 and even Saiyan arc to an extent look much nicer to what Z would eventually become around the Boo arc.
 

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I'm not talking about single panels or pages. I think the entire styling of Part 1 and even Saiyan arc to an extent look much nicer to what Z would eventually become around the Boo arc.
The Boo arc was the low point of the series in artwork because AT tried to end the series 3 times before that and was forced to continue, he even admitted to purposefully putting in less detail there.

I also don't see how single panels aren't reflective of a trend in artstyle change. AT's always had the same paneling sense, he does a "reverse Z" style where the action starts on the right top hand corner of the page and flows smoothly, and his style became more anatomically correct and more damage-heavy as his story progressed. Look at the 21st Budokai, where Goku and Roshi have hardly any visible blood and bruises after having a long fight vs. the aftermath of the Vegeta, Ginyu Force and Freeza fights. I do like the Pilaf arc's artstyle more than the extremely angular artstyle we had during the Cell Game and the Boo arc but AT's art definitely developed to a higher quality in late Freeza and the better parts of Cell imo. Even a minor fight like #19 vs. Vegeta looks more brutal than Goku vs. Old Daimao, which is more or less the second-biggest fight of that arc.
 

Fantastische Hure

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DragonBall has great art, period I think. I get Monster, but everything-else not.

DragonBall despite AT’s forgetfulness is surprisingly consistent.
 

Classic Adamas

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DragonBall has great art, period I think. I get Monster, but everything-else not.

DragonBall despite AT’s forgetfulness is surprisingly consistent.
Have you read Berserk or Vagabond? Even putting aside their stories, the peak art in those manga easily top anything Toriyama has ever done. That isn't even to say he's bad, but it's a different level.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Have you read Berserk or Vagabond? Even putting aside their stories, the peak art in those manga easily top anything Toriyama has ever done. That isn't even to say he's bad, but it's a different level.
Nah, but DB has perfect panel transitioning too. Something a-lot of (?) manga-kas struggle with. Even the so-called great ones.
 

Classic Adamas

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I don't have much of an opinion on that in particular, but the art itself to me isn't anything special. It's good, better than most, but I'd say it pales in comparison to those series. I think Junji Ito's work looks much better too.
 

Fantastische Hure

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I don't have much of an opinion on that in particular, but the art itself to me isn't anything special. It's good, better than most, but I'd say it pales in comparison to those series. I think Junji Ito's work looks much better too.
Nah. It’s hard to see the story progress at times with others.
 

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Oda, Araki and Kishimoto all have shitty paneling sense compared to Toriyama. It can be hard to tell what's going on in an average JoJo or OP page spread due to the excessive splash of minute details and convoluted panning
 

Yoshi

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Hure, if you became open to reading Seinen Manga, you might actually be surprised.
 

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Wrote the most influential manga ever
Stood toe-to-toe with Jackie Chan, here you can see that although he tried to mask it, there's still obvious fear in Jackie's eyes as he tries to shuffle into the corner of the sofa and make himself as small as possible when Toriyama is showing his fighting stance
akira-toriyama-vs-jackie-chan-excited.jpg


Made glasses cool again
Drew characters for the video game often chosen as the best ever (Chrono Trigger)
Drew characters for the best exclusively turn-based JRPG series ever (Dragon Quest)
Made HunterxHunter get postponed by making Dragon Quest look so cool. Crushed his contemporary rivals and the next generation.
Made Sailor Moon's mangaka poorer.
Saved kids from dying in a fire
Made Japan's roads safe again
Encourages eating vegetables and drinking juice if you want to be strong
 

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Jackie Chan is like a more publicized Bruce Lee. Even Game Freak thinks so. LOL.
 
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