Meditation as training

ahill

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How does some character get more powerful by meditating? For example, Piccolo, Goku have meditated as ways of training/improving.

I remember Kami and Popo were tutoring Goku in his 3 years training and Goku asked how much more he should stay in that meditating state, and they said way more time, as a way to... I don't remember it verbatim, but something along the lines of aligning his chi or honing his spirit. Some filler scenes show Piccolo thinking of certain scenarios, like either fighting through visualization or imagining an important and possibly bad ending... Meditating as a way of visualization. Would visualization be more common? Almost as if transferring their essence to the scenario and feeling the moment as intensely as a fight through deep meditation transferring their spiritual side / souls to simulate a very real feeling?

Some professional fighters talk about power of the mind and visualization... I never understood how it could be used irl though outside of cartoons lol
 

Animelover5487

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Some professional fighters talk about power of the mind and visualization... I never understood how it could be used irl though outside of cartoons lol

Exactly. It only works as a way to get stronger because its fiction.
 

ahill

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Exactly. It only works as a way to get stronger because its fiction.
Well yeah but some fighters say that visualization is a method that helps them preparing mentally to be in a fight, in a situation... Like, they visualize some sort of scenario so strongly that they describe as if they were almost walking towards some outcome, and bringing themselves to a mental state in which they can deal with the worst case scenario... More like, such being framed as a way to sharpening preparedness, to control the fear and anxiety, and channel it as something honed to be used as an advantage, an edge.
 

Sovran Nila

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Don't view meditation as an act. View it as a state of being. One does not practice meditation, one is meditation. The most fundamental aspect is that meditation is another way of saying clear mind/flow state, meaning no thoughts.

Visualization is just mental sparring; a simulation. Through imagination/envisioning/visualization, the body is activating the same neurons, without the physicality aspect.
 

Warmmedown

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Exactly. It only works as a way to get stronger because its fiction.
Nah. You can get stronger by imagining lifting weights, this is known. Not on par with lifting, but better than nothing. Probably only if you have some experience of the lifting exercise to be able to imagine it more vividly and activate the neural pathways or whatever else is needed to getbthe metabolic pathways for growth going.

What ahill said is true, you caj visualise to get stronger. Definitely for fighting skills. No doubt, cuz I've found it helpful. You can visualise going through steps of a sequence to make it familiar to the mind. Sometimes I'll do it while walking around. You can watch a technique video and talk yourself through the steps, imagining doing it. Same if a coach shows a technique and you want to remember it more quickly. If you're a powerful visualiser uouncan do it without any movement. Less powerful maybe u activate muscles on some subtle level. Less powerful maybe you do half the movement and make up the difference with visualisation. It can activate neural pathways that are the same ones activated when actually doing it. It's far superior to doing nothing. What do you think shadow boxing is? It's often done with some level of visualisation.

Likewise u can visualise someone watching you when nobody is there, to practice not being so negatively affected, in order to reduce performance anxiety or distraction when people actually are there.

You can also do it for other physical movements like imagining chopping an onion, playing a guitar, running etc. You and ahill never used it to warm up for something?
 
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Warmmedown

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If you can't train but think you'll go back, are u just gonna cry about it? And then bitch because you didn't do any work that you could have? Or are you gonna say yeh I could've done more and for whatever reason didn't and now maybe I'm being whooped on extra cuz of it. Even if it's like 10 well-visualised reps=1 real rep, doing it allows you to improve. But if given the choice I'd do the real one. Visualising is good if I injured, in a place where u can't do the move like when walking or as a warmup before the real one.
 

ahill

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If you can't train but think you'll go back, are u just gonna cry about it? And then bitch because you didn't do any work that you could have? Or are you gonna say yeh I could've done more and for whatever reason didn't and now maybe I'm being whooped on extra cuz of it. Even if it's like 10 well-visualised reps=1 real rep, doing it allows you to improve. But if given the choice I'd do the real one. Visualising is good if I injured, in a place where u can't do the move like when walking or as a warmup before the real one.
Nah lol I don't think it affects physical performance as in, biologically in real life lol. Like Nilla said, I think it's more about being oneself to a mental place they feel one with themselves. Like, emptying their heads and clearing it for calm and focus. Or in some cases, to imagine a situation and be comfortable with the outcome to the point it doesn't bother you enough for the fear to paralyze you.

Some fighters (trolling or not) talk about visualization, like Jon Jones and Tom Aspinall have both made claims that were kinda similar in regards to visualization — JJ when talking about Rampage Jackson and Francis Ngannou and Tom Aspinall when talking about how he's trying to tame down the fear of a loss for his next fights. JJ said something like "I'd have many nightmares that Rampage Jackson would KO me. I'd wake up at night breathing heavily and with the same nightmare, that I was KO'd by Rampage Jackson. And I remember the only dream the KO didn't happen right away was when I started the fight crawling towards him. So my first crawl right into an opponent was vs Rampage, as that was the only scenario I wouldn't dream or imagine myself getting KO'd quickly. I remember that when I had this dream of crawling as a way to avoid being KO'd, I felt something like being covered by leathers and God talking to me that I was blessed. I felt for the first time and energy brimming, seemed like I had been given a touch by God that relieved my constant visualizations going wrongly. Next time in the gym, my techniques were flowing beautifully, I was landing kicks that had a perfect technical flow, landing spinning back kicks... My coach was even confused as to why my striking was suddenly in a flow state, like if I had unblocked an unconscious muscle memory."

He also said " With Ngannou it's easy. There are two paths. Either he knocks you the fuck out in the first round and you break a jaw or fracture some muscle faces, loses the fight. That's the worst case scenario. So I imagine myself deep enough to accept this scenario, almost as if I were walking towards it. Then once I accept it, it becomes easy. I can deal with the worst case scenario. Then, thinking positively, about my striking, my speed, the fact he has KO power, but I'm smarter, have more striking variations, I have a grappling threshold that he lacks... So if he does not KO me in the first round, I win that fight. If I go past the first round, I win that fight. I just need to weather the storm in the first round and then I'm totally sure I win that fight. Either by a dominant decision or what I think a late round TKO"

Aspinall recently said he imagines himself in stress situations, like in a fight situation with the opponents standing across him and try to get comfortable enough so that the fear he's feeling of crowds, gets controlled and he feels enjoyment rather than fear at the time of the fight. The interviewer even asked him to elaborate on the visualization process, and he said " it's hard to explain, I just... Think of myself hard enough trying to make that scenario as real as possible. This comes with a year+ skills for learning to visualize"

Jiri Prochazka said a similar thing. He framed that as the " law of attraction". He said something like " what's important is to be by yourself and in a dark room with just a small dimming light to focus your glare on. And then try to focus on that, not letting any external thoughts drift you from focusing on that. And when you see you got to a point you can control your own mind well enough, then you don't have anything to fear. Because our mind is many times with overstimulation... And we are many times afraid to be fully with ourselves. We are afraid to be only with out company, no lights, just us and our breathing, our thoughts. When we manage to get days with ourselves, controlling our thoughts, we realize our own fears are... Something we can get control of"

These are more philosophical ways of framing a part of fighters' mindset that works for some. Alex Pereira for example sees it differently. He said " no, I just train hard enough, I like to be sparring and learning new techniques always. I actually can't go one day without training. Ever since I stopped drinking and started kickboxing, it's a struggle to be one day without training at least some thing. So I like to train everyday, with few days off, I sleep and eat strictly and train the most I can. I enjoy the hard work, the feeling of exhaustion to the point I feel my body is almost collapsing from a day of hard training... Is something that I live for, I enjoy pushing my body in training. So when I fight, I do my native rituals. I feel the energy of my ancestors with me, a sense of belonging within my own community, a sense of purpose. And in the fight, I'm focused and I don't feel afraid in the sense of trying to suppress it. I feel a little fear like anyone, but...I've been in situations like that so much, that I just know that... Like if I were doing an exam... I studied a lot, prepared a lot, so I know I'm ready for the level the questions bring. Whether I will pass or not isn't dependant on what I've done. I'm totally ok with not passing, but that makes me stone focused before the fights... Because I know I have what it takes to pass. If it doesn't work out, it happens. But I will always try when I know I have the skills"

Ankalaev is more like Poatan, saying like " I just train a lot, do my praying. And I do whatever I can. I train a lot, ever since as a kid I have only trained MMA. And that's all I do, even with the fighters in Dagestan, they joke about the fact that I am the one who trains the most. I don't like to appear on media and record videos because I am always sleeping, eating, praying 3 times a day and training daily for more than 20 years. So I think I can beat anyone. Like, what did the other person do that I did not? If it doesn't happen, then it wasn't meant to be my day. But I am so used to fighting, to pain, to struggle that being there ready to fight, whoever it may be, if it's Alex Pereira or Jon Jones, it still is normal to me"

Those two are the champions of stoicism. Some fighters bring a different level of confidence. In the sense they never feel that much pressure to start with. They know they are among the top 1% most talented fighters and that they train as a day to day life style that... It's like they have eyes forged in fighting already.
 

Warmmedown

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1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4974856/ - Effects of Mental Imagery on Muscular Strength in Healthy and Patient Participants: A Systematic Review

2. https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc331545/ - Internal vs. External Imagery as a Mental Preparation When Applied by Intermediate League Bowlers - study #1 says internal imagery (imagining yourself doing it from a first-person perspective rather than imagining from a third-person perspective) is more effective. At least for closed skills (ones that aren't affected by the environment and thus have fewer variables, like a serve in tennis or bowling a ball). Maybe external imagery is better for open skills. Study #2 I can't see, but the description says the pre-study assumption was internal imagery would be more effective.

3. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5013216/ - Mirror Visual Feedback Training Improves Intermanual Transfer in a Sport-Specific Task: A Comparison between Different Skill Levels - HOLY FK this is interesting. Seems to be about doing a skill with one arm, but watching yourself in a mirror, which creates an illusion of your other arm doing it. And then seeing if there's any extra skill crossover between the arm that's doing it and the other arm that appears to be doing it in the mirror, beyond the normal amount of crossover that would occur without using a mirror. Holy fuck. It could be a shortcut to developing ambidexterity of skills. Huge. Also more importantly for restoring function in an injured limb, such as after a stroke (tjw study is more about rehab). That reminds me, I don't have a mirror in my current bedroom I moved into a couple dayd ago, but the window shows a reflection at night and it now gets dark earlier (around 7pm).

4. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10136588/ - Effectiveness of Video Modeling in Improving Technical Skills in Young Novice Basketball Players: A Quasi-Experimental Study - different topic, but interesting. It's novice basketball players spending time watching video of pros doing particular skills that thr novices are working on. Makes a lot of sense it would help, but I looked it up because it's something I'm embarking since todsy, after thinking about it a few days, because I've been unable to train. (hopefully training again on Saturday).
 

Warmmedown

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Ahill stop talking trash. I told you it affects it. I told you I've lived it and used it and that there are studies and you just spouted out five million paragraphs of whatever theoretical stuff. You are now P123 from the how fast can Canelo kill a man topic. I suppose if you've not been a position where your interested in something but unable to train it, you've not tried visualisation so aren't familiar. Me, I'll try to take whatever options are there to improve if I can't actively train (realistically I don't come close to maximising it. Any of laziness, depression or distraction from goals). So it's something I've read about years ago and implemented.

Go learn about the human body more. Visualisation is not something controversial. It is well-established. Beyond the physical adaptations, art of physical performance is executing skills quickly and that requires remembering the skills quickly. That can be aided by going over the steps mentally. But there is also the physical adaptation.
There's also things like drilling and imagining an opponent, such as shadow boxing. You train your reactions with it, tje more you csn imagine a punch coming the more you train the reactions. Same for wrestling...I practice switches for example, imagining which side my opponent is coming from, to train the reaction without a partner. Do visualisation yourself for a month and tell me it doesn't work.
Myself I'll sometimes briefly visualise my legs moving before running, to get my body ready to run with better activation and form. I visualise bjj positions. The first time i did a baseball choke successfully, it was more than 50% based on visualisation training as I hadn't trained for years.


Who gives a fuck what nila says. Man doesn't even train.
 
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Dagon

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Metaphysics I say. Like in-universe, it's a way of building ki apart from stressing the body.

An in-universe scientist might say:

"Ki functions like a metaphysical waveform, oscillating within a fighter’s body to generate power. Our data shows untrained ki produces erratic, inefficient waves, bleeding energy. Meditation acts like a tuning mechanism, stabilizing these oscillations into a smoother, more consistent sine wave. This refined waveform enhances energy flow and output, boosting power levels without increasing raw ki volume. It’s akin to optimizing a signal in a high-tech system—less distortion, more efficient power delivery."
 

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