Movieverse

[GreatSaiyaman123]

A while ago we had a thread about how you’d fit the movies in the main universe, but what about the opposite? How would you twist the series to fit all 13 movies in a single timeline?

By the way, a bit more objective question. Do all movies take place in the same continuity? I mean we do have sequels from Cooler or Broly, and several villains had cameos in M12 as well.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

By the way, a bit more objective question. Do all movies take place in the same continuity? I mean we do have sequels from Cooler or Broly, and several villains had cameos in M12 as well.

Probably not in terms of all of them, but yes in terms of some of them. The Hatchiyack OVA shows that Movies 3, 4, 5 and 8 fit into the same timeline (Movie 6 is debatable as both versions of the OVA show Coola's defeat in Movie 5 rather than his death in Movie 6), though it's debatable whether they were the actual movies or heavily altered versions of them when considering the Freeza Arc still happened. Movie 12's army of revived villains would show that all previous movies (other than maybe Movies 6 and 7) took place in its timeline in some form or another. For the anime's main timeline, Movies 1 and 5 are the only ones we can say for certain took place due to the Garlic Jr. Arc and Coola's brief cameo in GT. Other than that, the other films taking place in the same timeline to one another is something up to debate, though it seems very unlikely you could fit all of them into a single timeline whilst keeping the main events of the series intact.

As for the first part of the OP, I'll think of a scenario later as that's definitely a far more difficult task than vice-versa.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] I’d say Movie 6 and 7 can fit in Movie 12. Super 13 was an artificial human and thus didn’t have a soul, while we know from Freeza’s appearence that villains don’t retain mechanical enhancements, so it makes sense Cooler would appear in his organic form. Dunno about M6 in the OVA though.

Yeah putting things into a single timeline as M12 implies is really tough and ends up involving some scaling. Like how strong is Slug? By the time of the movie’s release Goku hadn’t even become a SSJ yet in the manga. Same thing with Cooler. Granted the producers get info ahead, but that’s a several months gap.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't deny that Movies 6 and 7 could take place in Movie 12's timeline, but there doesn't really seem much evidence to support it. As for the film's Artificial Human trio not having souls, Toei seems to ignore that detail with #19 existing in GT as well as Gill seeming to have a "soul" of sorts in GT too as he was revived in the last episode, though you could chalk that up to GT forgetting a lot of things about how the afterlife works (eg. Piccolo not being allowed to visit Hell from Heaven without being permanently sent there despite Galu and Paikuhan doing so in Z filler).

I'd say the bigger issue when it comes to Slug, Coola and the likes fitting into the same timeline has to do with the Dragon Balls' uses. Movies 2, 3 and 4 are all post-Saiyan Arc (Movie 3 even implying Yamcha trained with Kaio due to his gi), yet all of them feature the DBs being used and somehow the Freeza Arc, Coola movie(s) and later the Cell/early Boo Arcs fit into it?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't deny that Movies 6 and 7 could take place in Movie 12's timeline, but there doesn't really seem much evidence to support it. As for the film's Artificial Human trio not having souls, Toei seems to ignore that detail with #19 existing in GT as well as Gill seeming to have a "soul" of sorts in GT too as he was revived in the last episode, though you could chalk that up to GT forgetting a lot of things about how the afterlife works (eg. Piccolo not being allowed to visit Hell from Heaven without being permanently sent there despite Galu and Paikuhan doing so in Z filler).

We all know #19 has Kim Jong-Un's soul tho and perhaps Piccolo was stuck because he wasn't sent by Kaio to deal with the baddies there?

Either way, even without cameos it's not a very big stretch in the timeline to fit Movie 6, and it would be odd for Movie 7 to be the outlier here.

I'd say the bigger issue when it comes to Slug, Coola and the likes fitting into the same timeline has to do with the Dragon Balls' uses. Movies 2, 3 and 4 are all post-Saiyan Arc (Movie 3 even implying Yamcha trained with Kaio due to his gi), yet all of them feature the DBs being used and somehow the Freeza Arc, Coola movie(s) and later the Cell/early Boo Arcs fit into it?

Yeah the timeline is a clusterfuck. We got a flashback of Nappa killing Piccolo in Movie 2, so we know Namek was a thing but apparently Freeza wasn't there. I guess in this universe he just arrives later than the usual?

Anyway, with no Freeza on Namek the Earth Dragon Balls are used to revive one of the four dead Earth Z Fighters still in year 762, since Kami died and being brought back would allow the DBs to be activated less than one year after Goku's ressurrection. 1 year later in 763 we got Dr Wheelo, 764 we got Tree of Might. I guess Namek Arc was just Goku hearing Freeza was around and going there with the gang to have a good fight. But when does Lord Slug takes place? Freeza is mentioned in the movie, after all.

 

[Pakl2]

Pakl to the rescue?

Anyway, movies are alternative universe of the arc it follows.

M1 is an alternative universe of the Raditz Arc (Raditz never came to Earth?)

M2 is an alternative universe of the Vegeta Arc (Goku arrives just before Piccolo dies and givees him a senzu and beats Nappa and Vegeta?)

M3 is an alternative universe of the Namek Arc (has no what if scenario)

M4 is an alternative universe of the Ginyu Arc (Goku kills Ginyu and returns to Earth?)

M5 is an alternative universe of the Freeza Arc (That's without a doubt an alternative universe where Goku kills Freeza and goes straight to earth)

M6 is an alternative universe of the Androids Arc (19 and 20 are killed and there the other android never get activated?)

M7 is an alternative universe of the Imperfect Cell Arc (Kamiccolo killed Imperfect Cell and Android 17 and 18?)

M8 is an alternative universe of the Perfect Cell Arc (Vegeta killed Cell with his Final Flash and Goku and Gohan got out of the Rosat when they max out in their natural state?)

M9 is an alternative universe of the Cell Games Arc (Basically an alternative universe after the Cell Games)

M10 is an alternative universe of the Great Saiyaman Arc (Basically an alternative universe during the beginning of the Budoka)

M11 is an alternative universe of the World Tournament Arc (An alternative universe after the Budokai where Majin Boo never got revived)

M12 universe is an alternative universe of the Majin Boo Arc (SSjin Gotenks kills Evil Boo with the Ghost Kamikazie Attack?)

M13 is an alternative universe of the Fusion Arc (SSjin Vegetto killed Gohan-Boo and Pure Boo never happened afterwards?)

 

[Captain Cadaver]

M1 is an alternative universe of the Raditz Arc (Raditz never came to Earth?)

Clips from Movie 1 and its general plot are used for the Garlic Jr. Arc in the anime, so Toei intended for it to tie into the main series, as illogical as it is. Similar case for the arc bringing in Hire Dragon with no explanation and assuming the audience saw Movie 3.

Movies 3,4, 5 and 8 all took place in the Hatchiyack OVA in some form, as did the Freeza Arc. There's then villains from all prior movies (except 6) making cameos in Movie 12, showing each of them took place in that timeline in some form.

In the end, there's no real point making sense of it. Toei intended the movies to be inter-connected to the main series and put no thought into the impossibility of such.

M13 is an alternative universe of the Fusion Arc (SSjin Vegetto killed Gohan-Boo and Pure Boo never happened afterwards?)

Movie 13 has no direct contradictions to the timeline, so there's no reason to overthink that. It just takes place some time after Pure Boo is defeated.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Saw CC posted here some minutes ago and thought he was done with a explanation for a single timeline Movieverse but nah, he’s refuting Pakl’s irrelevant shit

 

[Pakl]

Saw CC posted here some minutes ago and thought he was done with a explanation for a single timeline Movieverse but nah, he’s refuting Pakl’s irrelevant shit

Why is it an irrelevant shit

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why is it an irrelevant shit

Because Toei make it pretty clear through their material that trying to create any sort of logical through line for the movies' timelines is overall pointless when they made forced attempts to connect them to the main series and/or each other.

 

[Pakl]

M1 is an alternative universe of the Raditz Arc (Raditz never came to Earth?)

Clips from Movie 1 and its general plot are used for the Garlic Jr. Arc in the anime, so Toei intended for it to tie into the main series, as illogical as it is. Similar case for the arc bringing in Hire Dragon with no explanation and assuming the audience saw Movie 3.

Movies 3,4, 5 and 8 all took place in the Hatchiyack OVA in some form, as did the Freeza Arc. There's then villains from all prior movies (except 6) making cameos in Movie 12, showing each of them took place in that timeline in some form.

In the end, there's no real point making sense of it. Toei intended the movies to be inter-connected to the main series and put no thought into the impossibility of such.

M13 is an alternative universe of the Fusion Arc (SSjin Vegetto killed Gohan-Boo and Pure Boo never happened afterwards?)

Movie 13 has no direct contradictions to the timeline, so there's no reason to overthink that. It just takes place some time after Pure Boo is defeated.

I agree that TOEI doesnt care about continuity and shit. I just played the stupid game of trying to make sense out of the movies. The only thing that the movies have that are influenced from the series is the arc it follows and the power of the z fighters.

For example in movie 1, you just need to know thar the movies is based on the Raditz arc and that the Z senshi are at the level they were during this arc.

M1 doesnt fit in the time line, at least not while they made the movie. Its a stupid retcon. Its like Goku knowing Shunkan Ido in movie 6 bhut he did not have it in movie 5.

The OVA is mostly a video game. Why even take it seriously? Even so, it just makes my point. Toei does not care about continuty. Same thing for movie 12

M13 is not after Pure Boo's defeat. The movie got revealed while SSjin Vegetto was fighting Gohan-Boo

As I said the continuity doesn't matter but only the arc its based on

 

[Pakl]

Why is it an irrelevant shit

Because Toei make it pretty clear through their material that trying to create any sort of logical through line for the movies' timelines is overall pointless when they made forced attempts to connect them to the main series and/or each other.

And I have always said it. I was going by the playing of GS unless it's a bait of him. Lol

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I agree that TOEI doesnt care about continuity and shit. I just played the stupid game of trying to make sense out of the movies.

The OP clearly states a single timeline, not several.

The OVA is mostly a video game. Why even take it seriously?

The same can apply to the movies and how they intersect in general, hence making attempts to overthink what happened in their timelines and twist things for an ounce of consistency overall a wasted endeavour.

M13 is not after Pure Boo's defeat. The movie got revealed while SSjin Vegetto was fighting Gohan-Boo

Irrelevant when the events line up completely with post-Boo canon. No reason to separate it into another timeline when it lines up with the anime canon.

 

[Pakl]

I agree that TOEI doesnt care about continuity and shit. I just played the stupid game of trying to make sense out of the movies.

The OP clearly states a single timeline, not several.

The OVA is mostly a video game. Why even take it seriously?

The same can apply to the movies and how they intersect in general, hence making attempts to overthink what happened in their timelines and twist things for an ounce of consistency overall a wasted endeavour.

M13 is not after Pure Boo's defeat. The movie got revealed while SSjin Vegetto was fighting Gohan-Boo

Irrelevant when the events line up completely with post-Boo canon. No reason to separate it into another timeline when it lines up with the anime canon.

But we just said that the movies are alternative universe so why do they need to fit in the Anime?

Furthermore, even in the Pure Boo arc in the anime, SSjin 3 Goku is massively TOEI Haxed that he is stronger than SSjin Vegetto

Yet in movie 13, Goku is at least just stronger than Gohan and his Dragon Fist is not even as strong as Vegetto IMO

 

[Captain Cadaver]

But we just said that the movies are alternative universe so why do they need to fit in the Anime?

Toei make it pretty clear they wanted to place Movies 1 and 3 into the main timeline through the inclusion of Garlic Jr. (and flashbacks) as well as Hire Dragon into the anime's canon. It makes little sense, but it is what it is.
If you're referring to all the movies fitting in the same timeline, that's the whole point of the thread and the challenge to it; to change the canon events to fit the plot of the 13 movies into it.

Furthermore, even in the Pure Boo arc in the anime, SSjin 3 Goku is massively TOEI Haxed that he is stronger than SSjin Vegetto

He wasn't to that extent. The statements about Vegetto still being able to easily destroy Boo were maintained in the anime said by Kibitoshin immediately after he confirmed Pure Boo was the strongest one and Vegetto also told Boo to make him fight seriously after the whole dimensional scream situation, showing he still wasn't fully serious during that event.

 

[Pakl]

But we just said that the movies are alternative universe so why do they need to fit in the Anime?

Toei make it pretty clear they wanted to place Movies 1 and 3 into the main timeline through the inclusion of Garlic Jr. (and flashbacks) as well as Hire Dragon into the anime's canon. It makes little sense, but it is what it is.
If you're referring to all the movies fitting in the same timeline, that's the whole point of the thread and the challenge to it; to change the canon events to fit the plot of the 13 movies into it.

Furthermore, even in the Pure Boo arc in the anime, SSjin 3 Goku is massively TOEI Haxed that he is stronger than SSjin Vegetto

He wasn't to that extent. The statements about Vegetto still being able to easily destroy Boo were maintained in the anime said by Kibitoshin immediately after he confirmed Pure Boo was the strongest one and Vegetto also told Boo to make him fight seriously after the whole dimensional scream situation, showing he still wasn't fully serious during that event.

Or maybe TOEI doesbt care or did not even think about thjs when theybmade it. In movid 12, they could of just showing the villains without really caring or thinking.

Actually Pure Boo > SSjin Vegetto. The quotes you are talking aboit are contradicting ones because TOEI copies everything from the manga.

Vegetto also has SSjin 2 and SSjin 3. Gohan-Boo was actually just accessing Pure Boos haxed power. not all of it and Vegetto struggled. his aura was full power. Goku aslso states in the anime that they should of destroyed them when they were fused when they had the chance indicating Vegetto would not be able to beat Pure Boo

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Or maybe TOEI doesbt care or did not even think about thjs when theybmade it. In movid 12, they could of just showing the villains without really caring or thinking.

Yeah, I agree they didn't care. That doesn't change the fact what what happened and was suggested happened.

Actually Pure Boo > SSjin Vegetto. The quotes you are talking aboit are contradicting ones because TOEI copies everything from the manga.

They went to the trouble of adding the "strongest Boo" part to Kibitoshin's reaction to Goku and Vegeta fighting unfused, so saying they were entirely copying the manga here is false. Kibitoshin wouldn't be so absolute in his assessment that Vegetto would destroy Pure Boo if having to base it on a higher form, considering he was shown having a poor assessment of how strong Gohan would be as a Super Saiyan after his Z Sword training.

Vegetto also has SSjin 2 and SSjin 3.

Characters have been shown to consider a fight serious even if limiting themselves to a lower form. For example, For instance, this statement from Goku in the first episode of GT, despite him limiting himself to his base form against Oob:

Episode 1
Context: After Goku and Oob finish their fight
Dende: “Then, that's it for Oob-san's graduation ceremony?”
Goku: “This wasn't a graduation ceremony or anything as extravagant as that. I just wanted to fight all out against Oob for once.”

Goku aslso states in the anime that they should of destroyed them when they were fused when they had the chance indicating Vegetto would not be able to beat Pure Boo

Context is important. Goku had already destroyed their last chance of fusing to beat Pure Boo and being forced to fight on his own, so his statement needn't mean anything beyond him having been put in a disadvantageous situation.

Leaving that aside, even if we were to place Pure Boo above SSJ Vegetto, that doesn't force Movie 13 to be placed into a different timeline, but makes Hildegarn far stronger instead. It was already shown to be powerful enough to prematurely end SS3 Gotenks' fusion with one punch, a kind of feat never seen before that also makes it apparent how far above Gotenks he is, so saying he would be on the level of the anime Boo Arc's top tiers is far from unreasonable.

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegetto also has SSjin 2 and SSjin 3.

Characters have been shown to consider a fight serious even if limiting themselves to a lower form. For example, For instance, this statement from Goku in the first episode of GT, despite him limiting himself to his base form against Oob:

Episode 1
Context: After Goku and Oob finish their fight
Dende: “Then, that's it for Oob-san's graduation ceremony?”
Goku: “This wasn't a graduation ceremony or anything as extravagant as that. I just wanted to fight all out against Oob for once.”

I wouldn't say that non-canon GT quote is an entirely good example when Freeza clearly didn't take Piccolo seriously because he could stomp him in 3rd form and Galu was clearly unable to outmatch Yakon (other than that off-guard kick) without SSJ, and treated him to be an absolute joke since any of his transformations could stomp him.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Considering we're talking about the anime here, I'd say GT examples are fairly relevant. Freeza in general didn't think anyone could truly match him, so his position is consistent with his character, whereas Goku's attitude against Yakon was partially influenced by their difference in skill and he still had enough praise of Yakon's speed to point it out.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Came up with this timeline:

Spoiler

Age 761
- Dead Zone
- Raditz fight

Age 762
- Saiyan invasion
- Goku arrives soon enough to give Piccolo a Senzu, but things go about the same

Age 763
- After the Dragon Balls are recharged from Goku's revival, the humans are revived. Chaozu somehow didn't die in Part 1, so he's revived.

Age 764
- World's Strongest

Age 765
- Tree of Might

Age 766
- Lord Slug
- Piccolo somehow dies and goes train with Kaio. Perhaps Vegeta returned to Earth for a rematch after somehow failing to go to Namek?
- The gang goes to Namek to revive Piccolo. Tenshinhan and Yamcha stay to protect Earth while Goku recovers from the Vegeta rematch.
- A heavily altered version of the Namek fight rolls out.

Age 767:
- Garlic Jr Saga
- Trunks arrives on this time and gives his warning as usual, but the Androids are set out to appear next year rather than this one/in three years.
- Cooler's Revenge
- Piccolo and Kami agree to merge because there are too many treats in the future. Goku goes to New Namek pick up Dende.
- Return of Cooler

Age 768:
- The Androids arrive. Things go out as usual, but 18 and co. warn the Z Fighters there are some other Androids more suitable to their level (13, 14 and 15) that they should deal with while the stronger Androids look for Goku.
- Goku eventually recovers, but Chi-Chi think he should rest some more and takes him to go Shopping. Super Android 13 takes place.
- Goku decides they should definitely get in the Rosat as they could barely deal with Super 13 and both Kami and Piccolo knew there are guys even worse than the Androids. Cell arrives and things go out as usual.
- While waiting for the Cell Games, Chi-Chi forces Goku and Gohan to revert to base because of Gohan's school interview. Of course, it all goes in vain when the Legendary Super Saiyan takes place. This happens on Piccolo's Rosat day btw, thus why he's late and Vegeta and Trunks are still buff.
- The next day, the Plan to erradicate the Saiyans OVA happens.
- Cell Games.

Either Age 768 or 769:
- The Afterlife Budokai happens
- Bojack Unbound happens

Age 774:
- Great Saiyaman Saga
- Broly: Second Cuming Coming
- The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai
- Kuririn stays in the Budokai and he and 18 also get the boys to stay somehow, so Bio-Broly happens as the Saiyans fought Babidi's Gauntlet.
- Majin Boo awakens
- After countless power ups from both sides Goku finally defeats Majin Boo in it's pure form with a Full Power Kamehameha, but collapses and dies
- Fusion Reborn
- Goku, Vegeta and everyone who died are revived

Age 775:
- Wrath of the Dragon happens.