My ''Scouters/AT can kiss my ass'' list

[withheldforprivacy]

GOKU SAGA
Normal Humans: 1
Goku (tail): 10
Dino Bird: 5
Bear Thief: 7
Yamcha: 9
Ape Goku: 100
Goku (no tail): 8
Krillin: 6

21ST TB SAGA
Temple Bullies: 8
Yamcha: 12
Roshi (initial): 18
Krillin (initial): 18
Roshi (power up 1): 24
Krillin (max/focused): 22
Roshi (power up 2): 27
Bacterian: 13
Goku (no tail): 24
Giran: 16
Nam: 28
Ranfan: 18
Goku (tail): 30
Roshi (max): 30
Ape Goku: 300
Buffed Roshi: 90
Buffed Roshi (max KHH): 450 (most amplified blast in Early DB)

MUSCLE TOWER
Metallic: 28
Goku: 33
Colonel Silver: 16
Ninja Purple: 22
General White: 11
Eighter: 40
Buyon (jaws): 30
Buyon (durability): 132

REST OF RR SAGA
Goku: 36
Krillin: 22
Pirate Robot: 33
Octopus: 35
Commander Blue: 30
Bora: 30
Taopaipai: 80
Korin: 95
Water Goku: 90
Officer Black: 67
Battle Jacket: 84

BABA SAGA
Krillin: 22
Yamcha: 12
Dracula: 9
Invisible: 11
Mummy: 33
Goku (initial): 50
Devil: 55
Goku (powered up): 80
Gohan: 90
Goku (max): 90

22ND TB
Man Wolf: 5
Pamput: 45
King Chappa: 100
King Chappa (hassuken): 120
Goku (initial): 140
Krillin: 150
Chaozu: 135
Yamcha: 150
Tenshinhan (initial): 150
Yamcha (wolf fang): 180
Tenshinhan (power up 1): 200
Yamcha (KHH): 200
Roshi (initial): 200
Crane Master: 220
Roshi (power up): 240
Tenshinhan (power up 2): 240
Roshi (max): 270
Tenshinhan (max): 300
Goku (power up 1): 160
Goku (power up 2): 200
Goku (match level): 280
Goku (max): 320

KP SAGA
Young Roshi: 300
Mutaito: 330
Goku: 360
Yadjirobe: 320
Tambourine: 300
Cymbal: 150
Old Piccolo (initial): 330
Old Piccolo (45%): 1.440
Old Piccolo (max): 3.200
Castle Guard: 85
Drum: 450
Young Piccolo (45%): 4.500
Water Goku (initial): 5.000
Young Piccolo (max): 10.000
Water Goku (max): 10.000
Zenkai Goku: 12.500
Mr Popo: 30.000
Kami: 45.000

23RD TB
King Chappa: 200
Weighted Goku: 10.500
Tenshinhan: 12.000
Taopaipai: 8.000
Chaozu: 5.500
Yadjirobe: 5.500
Chichi: 7.000
Yamcha: 9.000
Krillin: 9.000
Piccolo (initial): 10.000
Unweighted Goku: 18.000
Expected Goku: 27.000
Shen: 36.000
Piccolo (powered up): 36.000
Kami: 45.000
Goku (max): 100.000
Piccolo (max): 100.000
Piccolo (worn): 90.000
Piccolo (arm regen): 80.000
Piccolo (post ultimate attack): 60.000
Piccolo (post more spanking): 50.000
Zenkai Goku: 125.000

RADITZ SAGA
Goku: 200.000
Piccolo: 200.000
Raditz (initial): 240.000
Raditz (powered up): 300.000
Raditz (max): 400.000
Goku (super KHH): 350.000
Piccolo (spc): 600.000
Gohan (initial): 1
Gohan (minus yuuki and shuuki): 120.000
Gohan (true power): 360.000
King Yenma: 800.000
King Kai: 900.000
Kami: 45.000
Mr Popo: 30.000
Tenshinhan: 25.000
Krillin: 20.000
Yamcha: 20.000
Chaozu: 11.000
Yadjirobe: 11.000
Ape Gohan: 2.400.000

SAIYANS SAGA
Saibaimen: 400.000
Yadjirobe: 45.000
Chaozu: 50.000
Yamcha: 400.000
Krillin: 450.000
Tenshinhan: 500.000
Piccolo: 630.000
Gohan (minus yuuki): 450.000
Gohan (true power): 675.000
Gohan (demon flash): 1.125.000
Nappa (z fighters): 1.350.000
Nappa (minus yuuki): 1.800.000
Nappa (max/focused): 2.700.000
Goku: 3.000.000
Goku (2x KK): 6.000.000
Vegeta: 6.750.000
Goku (3x KK): 9.000.000
Ape Vegeta: 67.500.000
Ape Gohan: 4.500.000

NAMEK SAGA
Krillin: 450.000
Gohan: 450.000
Freeza's Soldiers: 300.000
Namek Warriors: 1.000.000
Cui: 6.750.000
Vegeta: 10.000.000
Dodoria: 8.100.000
Zarbon: 8.750.000
Monster Zarbon: 12.500.000
Zenkai Vegeta: 13.500.000
Recoome: 18.000.000
Jeice: 18.000.000
Butta: 18.000.000
Krillin (unlock potential): 4.000.000
Gohan (unlock potential): 4.500.000
Guldo: 2.000.000
Goku (initial): 30.000.000
Ginyu (initial): 30.000.000
Ginyu (powered up): 37.500.000
Goku (powered up): 37.500.000
Goku (max): 50.000.000
Ginyu (max): 60.000.000
Goku (2x KK): 100.000.000

GINYU SWAP
Ginyu (in Goku): 12.500.000
Krillin: 11.250.000
Gohan: 12.500.000
Jeice: 18.000.000
Vegeta (initial): 18.000.000
Vegeta (powered up): 27.000.000

POST KING KAI
Weighted Piccolo: 60.000.000
Unweighted Piccolo: 75.000.000
Tenshinhan: 36.000.000
Yamcha: 22.500.000
Chaozu: 3.000.000

FREEZA SAGA
Nail: 18.000.000
Freeza 1st form: 150.000.000
Vegeta: 135.000.000
Gohan: 120.000.000
Krillin: 60.000.000
Freeza 2nd form (initial): 300.000.000
Gohan (unlock potential complete): 300.000.000
Freeza 2nd form (powered up): 375.000.000
Weighted Piccolo: 400.000.000
Freeza 2nd form (max): 450.000.000
Unweighted Piccolo: 500.000.000
Freeza 3rd form (initial): 750.000.000
Zenkai Gohan (minus yuuki): 350.000.000
Zenkai Gohan (true power): 525.000.000
Zenkai Gohan (demon flash): 875.000.000
Freeza 3rd form (max): 900.000.000
Freeza 4th form (initial): 1.200.000.000
Vegeta (zenkai): 1.200.000.000
Freeza 4th form (speed up): 1.800.000.000
Goku (initial): 1.800.000.000
Goku (max): 2.400.000.000
Freeza 4th form (no hands): 2.700.000.000
SSJ Goku: 120.000.000.000
Freeza (max): 112.000.000.000

MECHA FREEZA
Krillin: 60.000.000
Tenshinhan: 54.000.000
Yamcha: 27.000.000
Chaozu: 4.000.000
Vegeta: 2.400.000.000
Piccolo: 2.200.000.000
Gohan: 350.000.000
Mecha Freeza: 128.000.000.000
King Cold: 64.000.000.000
Alternate Trunks: 3.840.000.000
SSJ Alternate Trunks: 192.000.000.000
Goku: 4.800.000.000
SSJ Goku: 240.000.000.000

LONE WARRIOR
Alternate Vegeta: 2.700.000.000
SSJ Alternate Vegeta: 135.000.000.000
Alternate Gohan (2 arms): 3.000.000.000
SSJ Alternate Gohan (2 arms): 150.000.000.000
Alternate Gohan (1 arm): 3.600.000.000
SSJ Alternate Gohan (1 arm): 180.000.000.000
Alternate Seventeen: 400.000.000.000
Alternate Eighteen: 400.000.000.000

ANDROIDS SAGA
Gohan: 4.000.000.000
Tenshinhan: 1.000.000.000
Krillin: 1.050.000.000
Yamcha: 800.000.000
Nineteen (initial): 125.000.000.000
Nineteen (post energy): 200.000.000.000
Twenty (initial): 220.000.000.000
Twenty (post energy): 240.000.000.000
Weighted Piccolo: 6.000.000.000
Unweighted Piccolo: 300.000.000.000
Alternate Trunks: 7.200.000.000
SSJ Alternate Trunks: 360.000.000.000
Goku: 7.500.000.000
SSJ Goku: 375.000.000.000
Sick Goku: 250.000.000.000 and fast decreasing
Vegeta: 8.000.000.000
SSJ Vegeta: 400.000.000.000
Eighteen: 540.000.000.000
Seventeen: 600.000.000.000
Weighted Piccolo (post Kami): 540.000.000.000
Ginger Cell: 450.000.000.000
Unweighted Piccolo (post Kami): 600.000.000.000
Humans Cell: 1.200.000.000.000
Sixteen: 1.125.000.000.000
Semi Cell (initial): 2.250.000.000.000
Semi Cell (max): 3.000.000.000.000
Vegeta: 50.000.000.000
SSJ Vegeta: 2.500.000.000.000
ASSJ Vegeta: 4.000.000.000.000
Perfect Cell (fake): 3.750.000.000.000
Perfect Cell (initial): 8.000.000.000.000
Alternate Trunks: 45.000.000.000
SSJ Alternate Trunks: 2.250.000.000.000
ASSJ Alternate Trunks: 3.600.000.000.000
USSJ Alternate Trunks: 9.900.000.000.000
Buffed Cell: 11.200.000.000.000

CELL GAMES
Mr Satan: 2
Perfect Cell (initial): 8.000.000.000.000
Goku: 480.000.000.000
SSJ Goku (warm up): 8.000.000.000.000
SSJ Goku (max): 24.000.000.000.000
Perfect Cell (powered up): 27.000.000.000.000
Gohan: 720.000.000.000
SSJ Gohan: 36.000.000.000.000
Perfect Cell (true speed): 34.000.000.000.000
Cell Jrs: 13.500.000.000.000
Piccolo: 10.800.000.000.000
Vegeta: 270.000.000.000
SSJ Vegeta: 13.500.000.000.000
Alternate Trunks: 270.000.000.000
SSJ Alternate Trunks: 13.500.000.000.000
Perfect Cell (max): 45.000.000.000.000
SSJ2 Gohan: 90.000.000.000.000
Power Weighted Cell: 72.000.000.000.000
Zenkai Cell: 81.000.000.000.000

 

[p123]

1) I don't think you need to be forced to make Buff Roshi's KHH >> Oozaru Goku. Roshi does say that blowing up the moon is the only way. It's quite possible Roshi is able to sense that Oozaru Goku is just incredibly powerful and a ki blast won't do it. Now considering the scene, it doesn't appear that way, but we would have never guessed it was a 10x boost for the transformation either. There's a lot of things like this where you have to make these kinds of decisions. If you make his blast too powerful, why wouldn't he at least try it against Piccolo Daimao?

2) Pamput > 21st Budokai Goku. His wall breaking feat is superior.

3) I think Goku used the same power against King Chappa as he did initially against Krillen. Krillen says he would be mad if Goku didn't go all out, but we know Goku in fact was holding back.

4) Interesting take on how Match Level, Battle Level Goku works. I'll have to look into that. So you are saying Tien did not power up after Goku used his Battle Level. It's quite possible. We might need an entire breakdown on the 22nd Budokai, very difficult stuff going on there.

5) King Piccolo FP > Goku Initial is a smaller margin than Jackie Chun > Yamcha considering that Piccolo's gust of wind could not send Goku flying, but Jackie's sent Yamcha flying.

6) Popo at 75% of Kami seems way too close.

7) So you don't think King Chappa stuck around and watched the Budokai? I think King Chappa can defeat 22nd Budokai Goku at his level now.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. Because Piccolo would dodge it.
2. Maybe. It's hard to decide whose feat was superior.
3. I have extensively analyzed this in the past and everyone accepted my theory. Krillin heard Goku say he didn't go all
out against Chappa, which means he expected to fight an even stronger Goku, yet he still had some confidence. My view
was that Krillin/Yamcha weren't impressed only by Goku's feat but also by his facial expressions, making it look like he
was doing something easy. Krillin/Yamcha could probably replicate Goku's feats, but only if they fought to their limits.
When Krillin said to Goku ''careful, don't put all your power in the first match'', he was actually testing the waters, innerly
hoping that Goku would confirm he had used all his power, or at least close to it.
4. The reasons i think Tien did go all out is that, before the start of the fight, he said in his head ''i might have an
enjoyable battle this time''. Also, after the first exchange, Goku confirmed Tenshinhan was going for the kill. But, in
the end, it all depends on what gap you perceive as ''a different level of power''.
5. But Goku was also on guard. And FP Young Piccolo thought one punch would be enough to kill Initial Goku.
6. Depends on how you view Herm's ''far far stronger'' statement. I wanted to give humans some room to improve till BOZ
and remain weaker than Popo.
7. He seemed past his prime. I don't think he could get manyfold stronger. Even the 2x i gave him seems a stretch to me.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Your list are invalid.

 

[p123]

Figures someone like you would be so quick to point to a book for validation and leave your brain in the toilet. Figures.

 

[p123]

1) How do you know he would dodge it? Perhaps he could goad him into taking the blast head on. Either way, it's worth giving it a shot before immediately killing yourself. If I had the choice of Mafuba, which leads to immediate death, or a full power KHH, which leads to tiredness. Then it's clear which option I would choose. There was never an option, Buff Roshi can't do shit to Piccolo.

2) Post the panels up and prove I'm right. See for yourself.

3) I haven't accepted this theory yet and I'm the only one who matters. We will duel on this matter, you fool, prepare to die.

4) That's worth debating about too.

5) He was smoking crack.

6) Bullshit. He has the statements and the fucking feats your nerfing faggot.

7) He thinks he can beat Goku now. Your job is to prove that he doesn't know how strong Goku is. He should know how strong he is. You can argue that he didn't stick around, but show me why.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. Ok, give KHH the same boost for the buffed form as well. It was a gag attack anyway, destroying the moon and all.
2. Goku used a kick, but also demolished a greater part of the wall.
3. I'll try to find the thread i made that analysis and bump it.
4. We also have Roshi's statement (Viz) that a FP Tien would ''probably'' beat him. That shows FP Roshi, Match Level Goku
and FP Tien are in the same ballpark.
5. I just figured it was convienient, at least for a list without the scouters' restrictions, for Young Piccolo to start with the
same percentage of power he had used last time he'd fought (40%-45%). If you think otherwise, just raise his percentage to
whatever pleases you.
6. What fucking feats? Kami and Popo never fought each other.
7. We can make countless assumptions. Chappa was not a ki sensor. Chappa was overconfident. Chappa did not remember
the exact power behind hits he had taken three years ago. AT didn't give it that much thought, he just felt it was more
appropriate to show Chappa believing he'd win. The thing is i don't think he had found a way to become many times stronger.

 

[p123]

1) Well Jackie does differentiate that the one that blew up the moon was Maximum Power. I think it can be a bit more amplified than the regular Kamehameha, but I think the only reasonable option here is to have the Kamehameha nowhere close to Oozaru Goku.

5) Fair enough, it's not like it's assumed that Piccolo Youth Restore isn't at full power.

6) We can compare several things noob. Goku vs Popo/Kami. One is completely clowning Goku, the other, literally finger flicking him. Like a fucking booger. Finger flicked.

Next we have fights. Tien Full Speed vs Goku Unweighted, massive gap, probably not as big as Goku vs Popo. Then Shen's power, which isn't even as strong as Kami, completely blows that level away. It was like God Mode compared to what Goku displayed. Huge difference in power. Kami >>> Popo.

7) You are probably right. It's probably most appropriate to have Chappa superior to what Goku used against him and that's it.

 

[p123]

King Chappa doesn't get enough respect though. He's stupidly powerful, yet just a normal human. King Chappa would shit on Tao Pai Pai, yet no one respects him anywhere as much. Crazy.

 

[SSJ2]

People who don't understand Chappa's power fail to comprehend the story...

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2041661-proving-chappa-22nd-stronger-than-son-gohan/

 

[withheldforprivacy]

6) We can compare several things noob. Goku vs Popo/Kami. One is completely clowning Goku, the other, literally finger flicking him. Like a fucking booger. Finger flicked.

Next we have fights. Tien Full Speed vs Goku Unweighted, massive gap, probably not as big as Goku vs Popo. Then Shen's power, which isn't even as strong as Kami, completely blows that level away. It was like God Mode compared to what Goku displayed. Huge difference in power. Kami >>> Popo.

What if i raise Kami to 45.000?

 

[p123]

Maybe. I have a hard time seeing Kami under 2x personally.

Remember...

Kami > Shen >> Goku Unweighted

It's most likely that Goku Unweighted is probably inferior to Popo. Kami is ridiculously more powerful than Popo dude. Everyone is crazy if they think otherwise.

 

[p123]

You are right about Panpoot, he should be as strong as 21st Goku. Just checked.

 

[ahill]

Is it possible Goku didn't use full power to break the wall in the 21st Budokai? Roshi doesn't make any note of such feat suggesting Goku is dangerous for him and only does consider Goku as a threat after his fight with Namu.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

You are right about Panpoot, he should be as strong as 21st Goku. Just checked.

Well, i checked too and remembered a detail i had forgotten. Pamput says ''this is a little of what i'm about'', implying
he didn't use all his strength to break the wall. Therefore, you were right, i have to raise Pamput.

 

[p123]

Oh really? Ok, then. Good catch. See, I'm always right, one way or another haha

 

[ahill]

Your Roshi's different levels of effort in the 21st Budokai are pretty much in line with mine... good. What is Roshi power up 2? The second punch he lands on Kuririn? While Kuririn admitted inferiority I'd like to have them closer. Kuririn could still at least be somewhat competible and follow Jackie's speed. I'd say Kuririn (focused) should be > Jackie Chun (1st punch), but < Jackie Chun (2nd punch) although not my an astounding amount... distant rivals imo.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Your Roshi's different levels of effort in the 21st Budokai are pretty much in line with mine... good. What is Roshi power up 2? The second punch he lands on Kuririn? While Kuririn admitted inferiority I'd like to have them closer. Kuririn could still at least be somewhat competible and follow Jackie's speed. I'd say Kuririn (focused) should be > Jackie Chun (1st punch), but < Jackie Chun (2nd punch) although not my an astounding amount... distant rivals imo.

Isn't that what i did as well?

 

[p123]

Yea you guys complained loud enough. I don't actually have it as a power up, but it's just easier for the list. Here's how I have it.

Jackie Chun's initial power, he is effortless at the beginning, using some effort to avoid Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist and Krillen's attacks. He's not actually at a lower point of power, he's just not going hard at all. Some consider that differing power though.

So I have Jackie Chun using hardly any effort to using some real effort for his punch, but he held back on the punch. It's pointless to rate the "limp" punch as he says because we don't need to rate every single thing now do we? It's Jackie's real power, just not all of it. I don't know.

And then finally, Jackie uses full effort at the initial level, which he states Krillen is capable of matching his speed.

After that, Jackie decides he can end it whenever he chooses, so now he shows us his true power. The most accurate way to describe this is like this...

Jackie (Full Power) >> Jackie (Initial) >> Jackie (Some effort)>= Krillen >= Yamcha's WFF > Jackie (No Effort) > Yamcha

 

[p123]

Damn I think you were right about it at the 22nd Budokai. You bastard.