(Outdated) Natasha's power level list Android Arc - Cell Games 2023

[Natasha Romanoff]

If this list receives enough supportment, then I would make a part talking about the levels in the Buu Saga.

Androids Arc:

Gohan: 5.000.000

Piccolo: 5.200.000
FP: 260.000.000

Trunks: 6.800.000
SSj Trunks: 340.000.000

Goku: 9.500.000
SSj Goku: 475.000.000

Vegeta: 9.600.000
SSj Vegeta: 480.000.000

Android 19 (initial): 180.000.000
Android 19 (energy from Goku absorbed): 210.000.000
Android 19 (energy from Vegeta absorbed): 225.000.000

Android 20 (initial): 220.000.000
Android 20 (maximum potential): 230.000.000

Android 18: 510.000.000

Android 17: 520.000.000

Imperfect Cell arc:

Android 18: 510.000.000

Android 17: 520.000.000

Imperfect Cell Pre: 484.000.000
Energy from Piccolo absorbed: 490.000.000

Kamiccolo weighted: 500.000.000
Kamiccolo full power: 520.000.000

Android 16: 580.000.000
Imperfect Cell Post: 580.000.000

Pre Cell Games:

Semi Perfect Cell: 1.750.000.000
Semi Perfect Cell FP: 1.800.000.000

Grade 3 Goku: 2.375.000.000

Trunks: 38.000.000
SSj Trunks post rosat: 1.900.000.000
Grade 2 Trunks: 2.250.000.000
Grade 3 Trunks: 9.500.000.000

Vegeta: 40.000.000
SSj Vegeta post rosat: 2.000.000.000
Grade 2 Vegeta: 2.500.000.000

Perfect Cell fake ki: 2.400.000.000
Perfect Cell battle power: 9.000.000.000

Cell Games:

Vegeta: 340.000.000
SSj Vegeta: 17.000.000.000

Trunks: 326.400.000
SSj Trunks: 16.320.000.000

Goku: 380.000.000
50% Goku: 9.500.000.000
100% Goku: 19.000.000.000

Gohan: 532.000.000
Cell Games 100% Gohan: 26.600.000.000
SSj2 Kid Gohan: 79.800.000.000

Cell (speed vs Goku): 20.900.000.000
Cell (actual power): 28.500.000.000
FP Perfect Cell: 47.880.000.000
Buff Cell: 63.840.000.000
Super Perfect Cell: 75.012.000.000

Trunks returning to the future:

Trunks: 326.400.000
SSj Trunks: 16.320.000.000

Future Android 18: 490.000.000

Future Android 17: 500.000.000

Future Imperfect Cell: 580.000.000

Some clarifications:

The humans I have them below 1st form Freeza.

If it were for me, I would have Trunks around 450 millions and Piccolo around 400 millions (as well as Android 19 and 20 over 300 million), however 18 basically tanked his sword, just compare this:

Spoiler

To this:

Spoiler

I don't believe that Post Rosat Piccolo is relevant to the saiyans, and can be as strong as Imperfect or Semi Perfect Cell (however more than likely is still weaker).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

18 blocking Trunks is a mean feat, but a 3x gap? That’s huge. I don’t think the Vegeta comparison is fair - punching someone in the middle of a fight is different from being seen coming from 20 meters away. Plus Vegeta complains that 18 never looks hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if she could tank him, given a chance to brace herself.

I think making Piccolo half of 17 (260 million) and Trunks somewhat above that (over 300 million? 340 is 1.5x away from 510) is a fair middle ground. As it is, they’re basically equals. I think Trunks is at least >> Piccolo.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

18 blocking Trunks is a mean feat, but a 3x gap? That’s huge. I don’t think the Vegeta comparison is fair - punching someone in the middle of a fight is different from being seen coming from 20 meters away. Plus Vegeta complains that 18 never looks hurt. I wouldn’t be surprised if she could tank him, given a chance to brace herself.

Her feat is better than how SSJ Goku received Freeza's death beam which moves him a little bit. 18 is strong enough to tank Trunks, yet she isn't able to tank Vegeta's blows, even though it managed to do cosmetic damage and as well as with 19 it was supposed that androids can't take damage or have feelings. Also 18 had a hard work when it comes to take Vegeta down and Trunks is one shot material for the androids.

I had always think that it'd be perfect for their gap to be the same as 100% Freeza vs SSJ Goku (30 million) considering that in both cases Goku and 18 had the advantage on their opponents, yet the stamina was their downfall.

I think making Piccolo half of 17 (260 million) and Trunks somewhat above that (over 300 million? 340 is 1.5x away from 510) is a fair middle ground. As it is, they’re basically equals. I think Trunks is at least >> Piccolo.

Actually that would make a lot more of sense, I haven't thought of that.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@GreatSaiyaman123

I edited some levels for Gohan (which I think is relevant enough for suppressed Piccolo as he specifically talk him to help when Gero was about to kill him), Androids 19 and 20, as well as Piccolo and Trunks. What do you think?

EDIT: Changed the gap between CG Goku and Gohan, as well as changed some levels for Cell, I had problems estimating Buu Saga Goku, therefore I had to need to make the gap greater between them.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Her feat is better than how SSJ Goku received Freeza's death beam which moves him a little bit. 18 is strong enough to tank Trunks, yet she isn't able to tank Vegeta's blows, even though it managed to do cosmetic damage and as well as with 19 it was supposed that androids can't take damage or have feelings. Also 18 had a hard work when it comes to take Vegeta down and Trunks is one shot material for the androids.

I had always think that it'd be perfect for their gap to be the same as 100% Freeza vs SSJ Goku (30 million) considering that in both cases Goku and 18 had the advantage on their opponents, yet the stamina was their downfall.

18 blocked Trunks, that’s not a tank. It would’ve been a tank if she hadn’t put her arm up and braced herself.

I think Vegeta vs 18 looks more like Vegeta vs Recoome, which I’ve seen Goku vs Freeza also be compared to. Stronger fighter lets the weaker one throw everything he has, and just comes out with some bruises.

@GreatSaiyaman123

I edited some levels for Gohan (which I think is relevant enough for suppressed Piccolo as he specifically talk him to help when Gero was about to kill him), Androids 19 and 20, as well as Piccolo and Trunks. What do you think?

EDIT: Changed the gap between CG Goku and Gohan, as well as changed some levels for Cell, I had problems estimating Buu Saga Goku, therefore I had to need to make the gap greater between them.

I like Gohan and Weighted Piccolo being close. Some say it’s not implied, but I think the fact they trained together is enough to cover that gap. Don’t really care about 19 and 20 though, but I agree they’re probably above Freeza.

I don’t see why Gohan would be almost 3x as strong as Goku, but I guess I’ll get it when you do the Boo Saga

 

[Animelover5487]

Pre Rosat Vegeta is too close to 18. Kamiccolo made Vegeta shit his pants when he Powered up and he rivals her and 17

Gap between Imperfect Cell/16 and Kamiccolo/17 should be higher. Cell has one of the best Blast tanks in the series since Goku's KHH vs Daimao

Semi Cell's FP only makes him 1.02 times stronger?

CG Vegeta is too close to Goku

 

[Dagon]

Pre Rosat Vegeta is too close to 18. Kamiccolo made Vegeta shit his pants when he Powered up and he rivals her and 17

Pants shitting isn't enough to determine the size of a gap.

 

[Animelover5487]

Pre rosat Vegeta is 96% of Kamiccolo according to this list, that's in rival range. Kamiccolo was portrayed as being in a different tier than the SSJs.

 

[Dagon]

Pre rosat Vegeta is 96% of Kamiccolo according to this list, that's in rival range. Kamiccolo was portrayed as being in a different tier than the SSJs.

I'm not contesting that. Just saying you can't assign a number to pants shitting because people have strong reactions to a variety of gaps.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Pre Rosat Vegeta is too close to 18. Kamiccolo made Vegeta shit his pants when he Powered up and he rivals her and 17

I was taking Vegeta vs 18 fight as a reference. In Vegeta vs Goku fight in the saiyan saga, Goku had a hard time dodging Vegeta's attacks while being in Kaioken x2, being a 16k vs less than 18k type of gap and got completely stomped (considering that Vegeta didn't even went full power).

I don't think it requires that big of a gap or there is evidence determinant enough to classify as their gap being larger.

Gap between Imperfect Cell/16 and Kamiccolo/17 should be higher. Cell has one of the best Blast tanks in the series since Goku's KHH vs Daimao

I can say that Cell receiving the Light Grenade head on was definitely a feat, however, he was still pushed back, also Cell needed to block his punches and for a good reason considering that Piccolo's kick to the neck send him flying.

Semi Cell's FP only makes him 1.02 times stronger?

2nd form Freeza had like 2 power ups which barely increased his battle power, why not Semi Cell? It also makes fit Cell getting a 5x increase, which would make him to be tank level for Super Vegeta and close enough to Grade 3 Trunks (as Grade 3 give a great increase power-wise).

CG Vegeta is too close to Goku

Why this shouldn't be the case?

 

[Animelover5487]

I was taking Vegeta vs 18 fight as a reference. In Vegeta vs Goku fight in the saiyan saga, Goku had a hard time dodging Vegeta's attacks while being in Kaioken x2, being a 16k vs less than 18k type of gap and got completely stomped (considering that Vegeta didn't even went full power).

It's implied that at least at this point Kaioken lowers Goku's base stats each time he uses it, so the Kaioken x2 Goku that fought Vegeta isn't quite as fresh as the one thst broke Nappa's back. There is loads of evidence to back this up too.

1. Vegeta could still take hits and react to Kaioken x3 Goku despite Vegeta two shoting Cui at the same gap

2. Vegeta's Galick Gun being even with Goku's KKx3 KHH and Goku needing x4 to win despite the Saiyans being stated to being unable to alter their power through the use of amplified techniques

3. After the beam struggle Goku' is shown to be extremely Fatigued and injured from his multiple Kaioken uses

4. Goku's 50% Genkidama being unable to kill a injured and battle worn Vegeta despite Goku being confident in a full powered one defeating Oozaru Vegeta who Goku admitted he wouldn't be able to defeat even with Kaioken x5

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@Animelover5487
I think most of your points does actually makes sense, however, in the Genkidama case it was simply a wrong thought from both Goku and Kaiosama. Yes, it would sound insane, but if the 50% Genkidama couldn't kill a Vegeta that was over 10x weaker, it wouldn't have killed Vegeta in any shape or form.

 

[Goku9001]

Why is the gap between Trunks and Vegeta much larger than the gap between Vegeta and Kamiccolo?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Why is the gap between Trunks and Vegeta much larger than the gap between Vegeta and Kamiccolo?

Because Vegeta fared well against Android 18, Trunks was one-shot material for either android. Also Android 18 could broke Trunks's sword as if nothing, while Vegeta's hits actually pushed her back.

Cell killed Trunks and was confident on doing it again, yet he was cautious with SSJ Vegeta.

The only thing I've seen about Trunks and Vegeta being similar is that they're not much different from Goku, but the story doesn't illustrate that statement very well.

 

[Goku9001]

Because Vegeta fared well against Android 18, Trunks was one-shot material for either android. Also Android 18 could broke Trunks's sword as if nothing, while Vegeta's hits actually pushed her back.

Cell killed Trunks and was confident on doing it again, yet he was cautious with SSJ Vegeta.

The only thing I've seen about Trunks and Vegeta being similar is that they're not much different from Goku, but the story doesn't illustrate that statement very well.

Vegeta didn't fare well against Android 18. Android 18 tanked all of his blows with cosmetic damage at best. Vegeta was even frustrated by the fact that she took no damage. He even claimed that it was likely because Androids don't feel pain which was wrongly assumed because she does feel pain. His attacks just did nothing. The only thing Vegeta did was take more hits which is only evidence that Vegeta had enough of an edge where he was not in one-shot territory. Nothing more.

We also have a firm statement from Kami who suggests that Vegeta's abilities were "greater" than Trunks" rather than "far greater" and he watched their battle with the Androids unfold, so we are never meant to assume that Vegeta was vastly superior to Trunks.

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P3.1
God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

On the other hand, Vegeta claims that Imperfect Cell's ki was "absurdly large", complained that everyone was surpassing him left and right, and lumped him with Kamiccolo who absolutely devastated Vegeta when he powered up right in front of him. The notion that the gap between Trunks&Vegeta is greater than the one between Vegeta&Kamiccolo is flat-out wrong and not supported. Nothing suggests that Trunks was much weaker than Vegeta. He was within range of Vegeta.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Vegeta didn't fare well against Android 18. Android 18 tanked all of his blows with cosmetic damage at best. Vegeta was even frustrated by the fact that she took no damage. He even claimed that it was likely because Androids don't feel pain which was wrongly assumed because she does feel pain. His attacks just did nothing. The only thing Vegeta did was take more hits which is only evidence that Vegeta had enough of an edge where he was not in one-shot territory. Nothing more.

We also have a firm statement from Kami who suggests that Vegeta's abilities were "greater" than Trunks" rather than "far greater" and he watched their battle with the Androids unfold, so we are never meant to assume that Vegeta was vastly superior to Trunks.

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P3.1
God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

On the other hand, Vegeta claims that Imperfect Cell's ki was "absurdly large", complained that everyone was surpassing him left and right, and lumped him with Kamiccolo who absolutely devastated Vegeta when he powered up right in front of him. The notion that the gap between Trunks&Vegeta is greater than the one between Vegeta&Kamiccolo is flat-out wrong and not supported. Nothing suggests that Trunks was much weaker than Vegeta. He was within range of Vegeta.

Tanking would be like what she did to Trunks, Vegeta's punches moved her. Even though, her clothes are easy to damage, she still has some bruises from Vegeta's attacks on her face. Even though, Vegeta got frustrated to the fact that she didn't took damage, he still didn't lose hia confident self compared to how he lost his self confidence against Goku and Freeza in the saiyan saga respectively which he had to resort to cheap tricks.

The only time in which "far greater" is even referenced it is when Kami talks about his inferiority to Piccolo. I don't think that tell us of them being close, either.

Also Vegeta took to much time to put down even after his arm got broken, while the others got in the floor from one to two blows.

There's a reason as to why Vegeta also called Trunks and the others trash:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 158), P14.6
Context: after Trunks, Piccolo, Tenshinhan and Kuririn arrive
Vegeta: "What an absolutely annoying bunch...Do you really think this is an opponent you guys would be any use against?"