Pamput?

[Future Warrior]

Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

To me, it sounds more like Roshi is saying that in the EYES of any ordinary fighter, Panput is considered to be very strong. But since Goku far surpassed that stage, Panput was nothing special. For example, Goku (First Appearence) who is an ordinary fighter, wouldn't stand a second against Panput.

 

[Six Trails]

Pretty sure Pamput called breaking a wall only "a taste" of his power or something like that. He should be significantly stronger than 21st TB Goku who (looked like he) needed full effort to break one of the Budokai walls.

 

[sei'taer]

Honestly sometimes you guys over analyze things. Unless roshi got a massive training boost between the 21st and 22nd, there's no way Panput compares to him or goku from the 21st.

Panput is weak as shit.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

To me, it sounds more like Roshi is saying that in the EYES of any ordinary fighter, Panput is considered to be very strong. But since Goku far surpassed that stage, Panput was nothing special. For example, Goku (First Appearence) who is an ordinary fighter, wouldn't stand a second against Panput.

I'm not sure how he'd compare to Goku from the tournament, though. I think hi, being above Goku from the beginning do the series is OK, but later-on is the problem.

@Mike, true but what he did still has to be somewhat significant to his power, or-else he wouldn't consider even showing what he did since it'd be nothing to him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Honestly sometimes you guys over analyze things. Unless roshi got a massive training boost between the 21st and 22nd, there's no way Panput compares to him or goku from the 21st.

Panput is weak as shit.

I agree.

Even-though I don't agree with implying that Master-Roshi did not get a-lot higher, he did. He surpassed Goku from 3 years ago.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think the "ordinary" was consistently used through the series. Depending how you interpret it, Piccolo (pre Kami) was described as an ordinary warrior and only becoming an extraordinary warrior after merging with Kami.


Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P11.5-7
Kuririn: “I heard from the Great Elder on Planet Namek that if only God and Piccolo hadn’t spit in two, he wouldn’t lose to the Saiyans…In other words, I think Piccolo’s gone so that he and God can return to being one person. [ ] God and the Devil will merge and return to being a Namekian warrior. What’s more, Piccolo’s greatly improved, so he’ll become an extraordinary warrior. If Goku and the others are Super Saiyans, then Piccolo will be a Super Namekian.”


Panput casually breaking the tournament wall (being even more impressive than Goku at the 21st imo) shows me he is at 21st Budokai Goku level, maybe even a bit higher.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think the "ordinary" was consistently used through the series. Depending how you interpret it, Piccolo (pre Kami) was described as an ordinary warrior and only becoming an extraordinary warrior after merging with Kami.


Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P11.5-7
Kuririn: “I heard from the Great Elder on Planet Namek that if only God and Piccolo hadn’t spit in two, he wouldn’t lose to the Saiyans…In other words, I think Piccolo’s gone so that he and God can return to being one person. [ ] God and the Devil will merge and return to being a Namekian warrior. What’s more, Piccolo’s greatly improved, so he’ll become an extraordinary warrior. If Goku and the others are Super Saiyans, then Piccolo will be a Super Namekian.”

Panput casually breaking the tournament wall (being even more impressive than Goku at the 21st imo) shows me he is at 21st Budokai Goku level, maybe even a bit higher.

Ordinary wasn't used in that quote, though. Extra-ordinary was used, which is I think like saying incredible. I don't thin, it's always used as the super-lative for ordinary.

 

[Six Trails]

Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

To me, it sounds more like Roshi is saying that in the EYES of any ordinary fighter, Panput is considered to be very strong. But since Goku far surpassed that stage, Panput was nothing special. For example, Goku (First Appearence) who is an ordinary fighter, wouldn't stand a second against Panput.

I'm not sure how he'd compare to Goku from the tournament, though. I think hi, being above Goku from the beginning do the series is OK, but later-on is the problem.

@Mike, true but what he did still has to be somewhat significant to his power, or-else he wouldn't consider even showing what he did since it'd be nothing to him.

k

That's a valid point, but I interpret it more as Pamput showing that an impressive feat like that doesn't mean much to him.

Also, to the person above, is just saying "you people overanalyze things" without providing any sort of evidence for your point of view or providing any reasoning as to how it's "overanalyzing" supposed to be taken seriously? Because it comes off as incredibly dismissive and close-minded.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

To me, it sounds more like Roshi is saying that in the EYES of any ordinary fighter, Panput is considered to be very strong. But since Goku far surpassed that stage, Panput was nothing special. For example, Goku (First Appearence) who is an ordinary fighter, wouldn't stand a second against Panput.

I'm not sure how he'd compare to Goku from the tournament, though. I think hi, being above Goku from the beginning do the series is OK, but later-on is the problem.

@Mike, true but what he did still has to be somewhat significant to his power, or-else he wouldn't consider even showing what he did since it'd be nothing to him.

k

That's a valid point, but I interpret it more as Pamput showing that an impressive feat like that doesn't mean much to him.

Also, to the person above, is just saying "you people overanalyze things" without providing any sort of evidence for your point of view or providing any reasoning as to how it's "overanalyzing" supposed to be taken seriously? Because it comes off as incredibly dismissive and close-minded.

l0l, it's true it could be nothing to Pamput

but then wot if freeza blew-up a city to namek-saga goku to show how impressive his powers are??? even if it's just a taste of his powers, if it's not even relevant to his true-power, it wouldn't be worth-showing, in my opinion. especially just to show how great u are.

well, he has a right to his opinion. not like i'm not over-analysing

 

[Six Trails]

if it's not even relevant to his true-power, it wouldn't be worth-showing, in my opinion.

Well, do you think there is anything more impressive that Pamput could do right there at the Budokai ring to show his power besides breaking a wall?

well, he has a right to his opinion. not like i'm not over-analysing

Not saying he doesn't have a right to his opinion, just saying that claiming "Pamput is weak" and dismissing others' evidence as "overanalyzing" comes off to me as "You're all wrong but I don't need to prove what you said is wrong." At least provide some actual reasoning if you're going to call other people wrong.

 

[ahill1]

@2kewl4u

"Piccolo will become an extraordinary warrior", so he still isn't extraordinary, no?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

if it's not even relevant to his true-power, it wouldn't be worth-showing, in my opinion.

Well, do you think there is anything more impressive that Pamput could do right there at the Budokai ring to show his power besides breaking a wall?

well, he has a right to his opinion. not like i'm not over-analysing

Not saying he doesn't have a right to his opinion, just claiming that Pamput is weak and dismissing others' evidence as "overanalyzing" comes off to me as "You're all wrong but I don't need to prove what you said is wrong." At least provide some actual reasoning if you're going to call other people wrong.

He could show-off his speed? Or break a tree and throw it 500 miles north

my point is tho, if it wasn't impressive to his actual power then why show it as being some-wot impressive thing to do to begin with???

Well, at-least he's no Kabroom. he's just saying over-analysing, not like he's being condescending or anything. just that we are looking too much into it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

@2kewl4u

"Piccolo will become an extraordinary warrior", so he still isn't extraordinary, no?

Like I said, I think of it like saying incredible. I don't think it has to be a directly-higher word than ordinary or anything.

 

[ahill1]

I don't like to analyze the character strength through feats, because Tao Pai Pai's feats were more impressive than some Boo saga characters feats lol. I don't think Toriyama cares too much about this type of feats, like 21st Budokai Roshi destroying the moon and 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan destroying the Budokai arena, yet the Ten's Kikoho being >>> Roshi's KHH. Maybe the latter is a outlier though.

I'm only bringing up Panput's feat because is the same thing 21st Budokai Goku did, so it's not irrelevant. But one could argue that breaking the arena wall wasn't saw as that impressive, since Jackie Chun didn't see any potential threat in Goku when he did it, only later when he defeated Namu.

 

[Six Trails]

my point is tho, if it wasn't impressive to his actual power then why show it as being some-wot impressive thing to do to begin with???

What I'm trying to say is that (I think that) it's only shown as an impressive thing because it's being done with nowhere near Pamput's full power (as he describes it as "only a taste" of his power). If Pamput used his full power to destroy the wall then I'd agree with you that the feat being shown as impressive would imply Pamput is weak.

Well, at-least he's no Kabroom. he's just saying over-analysing, not like he's being condescending or anything. just that we are looking too much into it.

I just prefer to keep things as in-universe as possible instead of having to resort to out-of-universe answers when they're not necessary.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

That's true, but that's also what I'm kind-of saying. He shows nowhere near his true-abilities, but he's show a glimpse of it. 80/100 seems the highest I'd go, since Pamput still considers it impressive enough to show and make people fear him.

@ahill1, that's a good point about Master-Roshi.

 

[Six Trails]

It could also just be that I'm misinterpreting your argument because admittedly I am kind of lost right now.

Though I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I think we can both agree that Pamput is at least >= 21st TB Goku?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It could also just be that I'm misinterpreting your argument because admittedly I am kind of lost right now.

Though I'm fine with agreeing to disagreeing. I think we can both agree that Pamput is at least >= 21st TB Goku?

I'm saying whilst Pamput destroying the wall can be a glimpse of his power, for him to consider that impressive enough to show it off, it has to at-least hold some relevance to his true-ability.

Actually that's the reason I made the thread still not sure whether Pamput can be higher than 21st-tournament Goku because of Master-Roshi's dialogue.

 

[sei'taer]

Honestly sometimes you guys over analyze things. Unless roshi got a massive training boost between the 21st and 22nd, there's no way Panput compares to him or goku from the 21st.

Panput is weak as shit.

I agree.

Even-though I don't agree with implying that Master-Roshi did not get a-lot higher, he did. He surpassed Goku from 3 years ago.

I just can't imagine Panput having a fight like goku vs nam or goku vs jackie chun.

But that's just me, I mean goku pushed a goddamn mountain before the 21st.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Honestly sometimes you guys over analyze things. Unless roshi got a massive training boost between the 21st and 22nd, there's no way Panput compares to him or goku from the 21st.

Panput is weak as shit.

I agree.

Even-though I don't agree with implying that Master-Roshi did not get a-lot higher, he did. He surpassed Goku from 3 years ago.

I just can't imagine Panput having a fight like goku vs nam or goku vs jackie chun.

But that's just me, I mean goku pushed a goddamn mountain before the 21st.

I mean Goku did get several-times stronger. Even Goku from the 21st-tournament wouldn't do any better against himself than Pamput did most likely.