Panputto vs Giran

Emmeth

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My arbitrary numbers for the two characters:

Panputto - 65
Giran - 23

Giran didn't have much of anything aside from his slime. Panputto was actually considered close to super-human by his own peers (he was a renowned Muay Thai kickboxer).
 

Captain Cadaver

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Giran wins. Panputto's only noteworthy feat was breaking through a wall with a punch, something far less impressive than Yamcha knocking Goku through multiple pillars in the very first arc, whereas Giran was still relevant enough that a far stronger Goku could be affected slightly by his sucker punch and Giran was capable of enduring a full power punch from said Goku. Add in that Giran has far more varied techniques than conventional martial arts and things aren't looking good for Panputto.

Emmet said:
Panputto was actually considered close to super-human by his own peers (he was a renowned Muay Thai kickboxer).
Kuririn was suggested to already be close to reaching peak human status prior to the bulk of his training with Roshi, so I wouldn't say that says much in regard to Panputto's power.

Chapter: 28, P14.5
Context: as Lunch chases Kuririn with a butcher knife
Kame-sennin: “Mumu…! Kuririn’s drawn pretty close to the human wall…!”
 

Animelover5487

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Captain Cadaver said:
Giran wins. Panputto's only noteworthy feat was breaking through a wall with a punch, something far less impressive than Yamcha knocking Goku through multiple pillars in the very first arc, whereas Giran was still relevant enough that a far stronger Goku could be affected slightly by his sucker punch and Giran was capable of enduring a full power punch from said Goku. Add in that Giran has far more varied techniques than conventional martial arts and things aren't looking good for Panputto.

Emmet said:
Panputto was actually considered close to super-human by his own peers (he was a renowned Muay Thai kickboxer).
Kuririn was suggested to already be close to reaching peak human status prior to the bulk of his training with Roshi, so I wouldn't say that says much in regard to Panputto's power.

Chapter: 28, P14.5
Context: as Lunch chases Kuririn with a butcher knife
Kame-sennin: “Mumu…! Kuririn’s drawn pretty close to the human wall…!”

What about Giran's reaction to Goku breaking the tournament wall? It is plausible that the tournament wall is made out of tougher material than the pillars as it is made out of solid bricks.

Plus it is possible that it is an outlier (like 21st Roshi blowing up the moon) since a feat like that is never replicated.
 

Emmeth

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Captain Cadaver said:
Giran wins. Panputto's only noteworthy feat was breaking through a wall with a punch, something far less impressive than Yamcha knocking Goku through multiple pillars in the very first arc, whereas Giran was still relevant enough that a far stronger Goku could be affected slightly by his sucker punch and Giran was capable of enduring a full power punch from said Goku. Add in that Giran has far more varied techniques than conventional martial arts and things aren't looking good for Panputto.

Emmet said:
Panputto was actually considered close to super-human by his own peers (he was a renowned Muay Thai kickboxer).
Kuririn was suggested to already be close to reaching peak human status prior to the bulk of his training with Roshi, so I wouldn't say that says much in regard to Panputto's power.

Chapter: 28, P14.5
Context: as Lunch chases Kuririn with a butcher knife
Kame-sennin: “Mumu…! Kuririn’s drawn pretty close to the human wall…!”

But Giran gave up when Goku broke a wall.
 

SSJ2

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Unless this is Wild West Anime Giran, I think he loses. Panputto was treated in higher regard than Giran was, during a Budokai where it was expected that the cast would be stronger than before. Add in what Emmeth said, I think mango Giran won’t last unless he can land his gum attack.
 

ahill1

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Panputto seemed to easily replicate a feat from a past Budokai Goku that had Giran popping out his eyes and giving up any attempt. I think the kickboxer afro fighter has this easily.
 

Captain Cadaver

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[mention]Animelover5487[/mention]
[mention]Emmeth[/mention]

Kuririn also casually broke a wall in the preliminary fight with the Orinji temple student so unless you believe Toriyama retconned the minimum requirements for a feat in the span of a few chapters, that isn't one out of the realm of most 21st TB competitiors.
The context for that feat is important. Take note that Giran was already aghast at Goku being able to break out of his Guru Guru Gum as well as still be resilient enough after doing so to still break a wall. It wasn't the entirety of the latter that caused him to surrender. Seeing his trump card be made useless was a major part in that.
 

Emmeth

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If Roshi can sense ki as he implies after Ten uses his Kikoho in the final of the 22nd TB, he's still impressed by Panputto before that. And this is obviously years after Goku fights Giran and that is years with experience and power gain.
 

Captain Cadaver

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He wasn't impressed by Panputto though. He only found him impressive by the standard of regular humans, a tier that has been vastly surpassed since the early chapters of the manga.

Chapter: 122, P13.2-5
Kuririn: “But I knew you’d win for sure! Despite how incredible they said he was, he didn’t look all that great!”
Goku: “Maybe he was just in bad form today”
Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

Compare that to Roshi already viewing Kuririn as close to the human wall (ie. ordinary level) not far into his training and Panputto definitely doesn't seem impressive even by the standard of the 21st TB contestants.
 

Emmeth

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If only Roshi said something about Giran we'd know for sure.
 

DBZAOTA482

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Panputto stomps. Giran's only chance of winning is by using the Guru Guru Gum.
 

Keedounan

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For reasons already stated by CC, Giran would win. He has actual feats going for him.
 

GSM123

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My money’s on Pamputto, unless this is a Budokai match were Guilan can just use his Guru Guru Gum and throw him out of bounds.

Goku’s wall breaking feat on the 21st was seen as a high tier feat that didn’t get replicated for the rest of the tournament, while Pamputto’s was used as a measuring stick to how much Goku and Kuririn surpassed human levels. So I don’t have any problem with taking Goku’s feats earlier as outliers or the 21st feat as evidence Guilan isn’t very impressive.
 

Captain Cadaver

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Goku’s wall breaking feat on the 21st was seen as a high tier feat that didn’t get replicated for the rest of the tournament,
Kuririn replicated it in the preliminaries, arguably to an even more impressive degree when he knocked one of his former bullies through a larger amount of a brick wall.

while Pamputto’s was used as a measuring stick to how much Goku and Kuririn surpassed human levels.
As I already mentioned, Roshi already found Kuririn to be approaching the human wall during his training, and that was long before he saw just how strong he and Goku would get from it, to an extent he never expected them to I might add.
 

SSJ2

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Stop wanking Giran. It is evident that you want his yuge dragon cock but you need to restrain yourself. Think logically.


AE08-E369-6305-454-E-AE5-B-CD2-E84708653.jpg



Panputto was universally praised around the globe. The god of martial arts himself said that Panputto was a pure genius of martial arts. Krillin looked nervous when Panputto jumped in the ring, saying he looked serious. If Panputto jumping into the ring was enough to evoke fear in Krillin, who is already stated to be far beyond where he was in he 21st, why the fuck is Giran even in this conversation? Oh yeah, because you’re a Giran wanker.
 

Captain Cadaver

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I concede your excellent airbrushing evidence is top notch. Panputto is at least SSB tier to be praised by the guy who could learn Ultra Instinct without any divine training.

Super Saiyan said:
Stop wanking Giran. It is evident that you want his yuge dragon cock but you need to restrain yourself.
You say you wouldn't when he's flaunting his wild west aesthetic? Even Roshi didn't want to fuck with that.
 

ahill1

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Chapter: 122, P13.2-5
Kuririn: “But I knew you’d win for sure! Despite how incredible they said he was, he didn’t look all that great!”
Goku: “Maybe he was just in bad form today”
Kame-sennin: “Hohhohhoh…That’s not it. Panput truly was a fearsomely skilled master, but only when seen from an ordinary level…To your eyes, however, he didn’t look like anything special…That shows just how much you two have acquired strength that surpasses the ordinary.”

Chapter: 28, P14.5
Context: as Lunch chases Kuririn with a butcher knife
Kame-sennin: “Mumu…! Kuririn’s drawn pretty close to the human wall…!”

Roshi described one as "human" wall and the other as "ordinary" wall. There might be a difference.

Plus, either Goku or Kuririn responded to Roshi's emphasis on Panputto and the above level they had risen with surprise, so it doesn't seem to be something accomplishable by their past Budokai selves. Seemed to be specifically to 22nd Budokai Kuririn and Goku.
 

Captain Cadaver

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ahill1 said:
Roshi described one as "human" wall and the other as "ordinary" wall. There might be a difference.
That would seem pretty unnecessary. It'd make a lot more sense if the human wall and ordinary level were swapped for these statements, but I'd find it hard to consider even BoDB Goku's feats "ordinary".

The only thing I'd say would support this would be Blue needing only knowledge that Goku and Kuririn knew martial arts to explain why they were capable of fighting the Pirate Robot, which is a decent point to make. Still, it's questionable that Panputto would be on the level of 21st TB Goku/Roshi when the latter still held strong to his hype as the God of Martial Arts during the 21st TB, which would be difficult to do if this well known MMA fighter was on his level.

Plus, either Goku or Kuririn responded to Roshi's emphasis on Panputto and the above level they had risen with surprise, so it doesn't seem to be something accomplishable by their past Budokai selves.
In the statements you used, Goku specified it was that people said Panputto was amazing, not that he found him so. Kuririn also found him as someone who didn't live up to the hype:

Chapter: 122, P8.1
Context: before Panput and Goku fight.
Kuririn: “But he’s not all that amazing…”
Kame-sennin: “Well, watch this match reaa—aal close.”

Then again, you could say the "all that" inclusion would suggest he's still pretty relevant at least to 21st TB competition, though it seems like quite a minor piece of evidence to use as something significant.
 

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