PL of land animals (preliminary)

[Warmmedown]

Just gonna throw some numbers out. No research.

Unarmed Human: 50
Grizzly Bear: 70
Lion: 63
Tiger: 65
Kangaroo: 62
Silverback gorilla: 63
Orangutan: 55
Giant panda: 55
Elephant: 100
Horse: 52
Russian brown bear: 52
1000kg/1 tonne saltwater crocodile: 200
Komodo dragon: 70
Boa constrictor: 70
Hippo: 80
Cow: 55


What metrics should matter for PL?

Strength/how much they can push, pull or lift
Crushing power of muscles
Biting power
Running speed
Dodging/blocking/pouncing/non-locomotive movement speed
Jumping distance or jumping height
Durability
Blocking ability (if any have it)
Bone density
Tendon thickness or rigidity/stiffness/tensile strength
Muscle density (idk what this is)
Venom strength?
Stamina?



What about skills? Does a kangaroo knowing how to kick and do chokeholds (wtf, that's terrifying) or a brown beat knowing a bit of wrestling factor into PL? What about that some skilled humans can outwrestle a brown bear or trip a horse (seen in a video of taming horses in Mongolia, the guy grabbed it while running, tripped it with a smaller outer reap and then got on it)? What about punching and kicking? Maybe Manny Pacquiao or Yuki Yoza are weaker than an Orangutan, but either one would probably bully it in a fight if picking the unfortunate animal apart from range. A cow could trample on them, but again maybe they can beat it via punching it...who knows...Manny by uppercut? This topic's getting unethical lol.
Do claws matter? A grizzly bear and kangaroo have some dangerous claws.

How should things be weighted? A boa constrictor is slow compared to a horse, tiger or komodo and won't lift or drag as much as a gorilla, but if it gets around something it might be the strongest of all. An elephant has poor manoeuvrability, but is strong (can knock down trees, could probably swipe any of these animals except the snake and crocodile and send it flying, has legs strong enough to on their own support its entire body weight, albeit unhealthily, could kill any of the animals by running on them) and relatively durable.
A horse is fast, but it lacks stamina (all of these will probably lack stamina compared to a human)

 

[Cenas bald spot]

The bears, Lion, Tigers, Elephants and Hippos are far too low whereas the unarmed human, Kangaroo, Gorilla, boa, Komodo and Salty are way too high.

 

[Warmmedown]

Unarmed Human is a reference point.
Now I think about it, s gorilla should be at least 150 if a human is 50, just for strength.

A lion is weaksauce on its own.

A boa is super slow but can probably crush almost all the animals on here if it grabs them. It's like USSJ Trunks. But it seems like in Z that speed isn't counted as power level, now I think about it.

 

[Cenas bald spot]

You do realize that Tigers and Lions have been documented killing Gars and Water Buffalo with a single swipe right?
And a Bear is capable of doing the same to a Moose.

They’re all 1 shotting the likes of a Gorilla lmao

 

[Cenas bald spot]

Hippo 80
Croc 200

This has got to be trolling huehue

 

[Power Level Guy]

Power levels should essentially be measuring combat ability.

A gorilla is bare minimum 1.5x a human. And not just any human, our top humans.

Look at their skull.

Strength isn’t a good way to make power levels, it’s a factor no doubt but it’s a bad way to do things.

 

[Power Level Guy]

A lot of what you are saying is making sense, a lion being weak sauce is insanity though.

A large bear is probably 1.25-1.33x a gorilla.

 

[The Supreme Being]

A large bear is probably 1.25-1.33x a gorilla.

That gap is too small, it would take like five gorillas or more to kill a grizzly bear.

Aren't gorillas regularly hunted by leopards? Larger predators are on a whole different level.

 

[Power Level Guy]

That gap is too small, it would take like five gorillas or more to kill a grizzly bear.

You think so? I don’t know about all that. I think 3 gorillas can probably take down a bear.

Aren't gorillas regularly hunted by leopards? Larger predators are on a whole different level.

Agreed, but how far is the question.

A 1.5x gap is absolutely massive. You are cutting through 3 opponents like butter.

 

[The Supreme Being]

You think so? I don’t know about all that. I think 3 gorillas can probably take down a bear.

Three wouldn't be enough to trouble a grizzly bear even if they didn't run and fight to death since they don't have the weapons to harm it. A gorilla doesn't have enough punching or biting power to seriously injure a grizzly bear, while a grizzly bear could kill a gorilla with a single swipe of its claws. I think this should be a 1.5x gap at least just like the gap between humans and gorillas.

Agreed, but how far is the question.

A 1.5x gap is absolutely massive. You are cutting through 3 opponents like butter.

Gorillas are killed by 100lbs cats, a tiger or lion having a 1.5x gap on them isn't unreasonable. They would be killed in a few seconds in a fight.

 

[Warmmedown]

That gap is too small, it would take like five gorillas or more to kill a grizzly bear.

Aren't gorillas regularly hunted by leopards? Larger predators are on a whole different level.

Individual leopards? And are they using stealth for a surprise attack?

I also dunno if PL should be about which animal beats which. Isn't PL about how strong someone is, skills or precision strikes aside? Krillin can kill Nappa with a kienzan, but even if he could go invisible and kill Nappa with a kienzan 10 times out of 10, his PL is still much lower than Nappa's. A stealth predator sneakily going for the jugular is similar. Same for Spike the Devilman. Yeh he can kill 99% of the Z-verse, but his PL is weak. A gorilla can produce way more force than a leopard.

 

[Warmmedown]

Or rather than strength, power. Energy output per second. For animals that's kinetic energy (unless we're talking electric eels).

 

[Animelover5487]

Individual leopards? And are they using stealth for a surprise attack?

I also dunno if PL should be about which animal beats which. Isn't PL about how strong someone is, skills or precision strikes aside? Krillin can kill Nappa with a kienzan, but even if he could go invisible and kill Nappa with a kienzan 10 times out of 10, his PL is still much lower than Nappa's. A stealth predator sneakily going for the jugular is similar. Same for Spike the Devilman. Yeh he can kill 99% of the Z-verse, but his PL is weak. A gorilla can produce way more force than a leopard.

Kienzan and Devilmite Beam are specialized ki techniques that don't scale to the user. Wild animals don't have those.

 

[The Supreme Being]

Individual leopards? And are they using stealth for a surprise attack?

I also dunno if PL should be about which animal beats which. Isn't PL about how strong someone is, skills or precision strikes aside? Krillin can kill Nappa with a kienzan, but even if he could go invisible and kill Nappa with a kienzan 10 times out of 10, his PL is still much lower than Nappa's. A stealth predator sneakily going for the jugular is similar. Same for Spike the Devilman. Yeh he can kill 99% of the Z-verse, but his PL is weak. A gorilla can produce way more force than a leopard.

I agree that power levels measure the amount of ki which goes hand in hand with physical strength, but unlike the DB verse strength isn't the only thing that matters in our world. A gorilla is definitely bigger and stronger than a leopard, but the latter is capable of killing it due to being a predator with better weapons.

 

[Warmmedown]

Kienzan and Devilmite Beam are specialized ki techniques that don't scale to the user. Wild animals don't have those.

Ok what about Vegeta KOing Goku with a stealth blow? That probably scales to the user, eg Roshi couldn't do it. If he could land that KO blow 80% of the time for some reason, his PL still wouldn't be higher than Goku's.

Or here's another thing: is a bite of a big cat like a ki amp technique? Say if Goku was 900PL. His standard PL would still be weaker than Raditz's standard PL, but with ki amp he had an attack stronger than Raditz. If Goku wasn't allowed to ever use KHH, he'd still lose, but a KHH he can win. So if a leopard wasn't allowed to use neck bite, does it still win vs a gorilla? Or is a gorilla's standard PL higher?

 

[Warmmedown]

I agree that power levels measure the amount of ki which goes hand in hand with physical strength, but unlike the DB verse strength isn't the only thing that matters in our world. A gorilla is definitely bigger and stronger than a leopard, but the latter is capable of killing it due to being a predator with better weapons.

Would you extend this to human vs human fights too? Like do you consider Sakuraba to have a higher power level than Kevin Randleman? Or Ryan Hall than Mike Tyson, because he'd probably leg lock Mike and break his knees?

Edit: or when Marcelo Garcia was winning openweight BJJ worlds, did he have the highest PL of all BJJers? Does a 150lb MT guy who just kicks the keg and moves until the opponent falls over have a higher PL than a HW boxer, if he can consistently do that to the boxer?

 

[Animelover5487]

Actually

Ok what about Vegeta KOing Goku with a stealth blow? That probably scales to the user, eg Roshi couldn't do it. If he could land that KO blow 80% of the time for some reason, his PL still wouldn't be higher than Goku's.

Or here's another thing: is a bite of a big cat like a ki amp technique? Say if Goku was 900PL. His standard PL would still be weaker than Raditz's standard PL, but with ki amp he had an attack stronger than Raditz. If Goku wasn't allowed to ever use KHH, he'd still lose, but a KHH he can win. So if a leopard wasn't allowed to use neck bite, does it still win vs a gorilla? Or is a gorilla's standard PL higher?

I don't understand your example as ki attacks aren't remotely the same as stealth attacks and neck bites. Those are tactics. I think in-universe the scouter does measure intellect and how well you can use your strength in its battle power readings, which is why I don't believe animals like gorilla's and leopards would be higher than like 12-15.

Theoretically they have been estimated to be like 10x stronger than humans but they wouldn't be a 50 on the scouter.

Anyway neck bite is like hitting a guy in the nuts. It doesn't make you stronger than them or show you have a higher battle power. It is "cheating".

 

[Warmmedown]

Well I'm wondering if the only reason a leopard beats a gorilla is because of neck biting.

 

[Warmmedown]

Anyway neck bite is like hitting a guy in the nuts. It doesn't make you stronger than them or show you have a higher battle power. It is "cheating".

Isn't it intellect and precision? What about things like armlocks or even doing a skilled takedown? They're using leverages, in a way "cheating".

 

[Power Level Guy]

Three wouldn't be enough to trouble a grizzly bear even if they didn't run and fight to death since they don't have the weapons to harm it.

I don't know if I believe that.

A gorilla doesn't have enough punching or biting power to seriously injure a grizzly bear, while a grizzly bear could kill a gorilla with a single swipe of its claws. I think this should be a 1.5x gap at least just like the gap between humans and gorillas.

I think this is the limitations of the "combat ability" style we are talking about. It's a nuanced discussion here. Overall, it's mostly combat ability. But if you gave the gorilla the same weapons as a bear, he'd be much more competitive.

The farmer has a 5 power level despite the shotgun in his hands. I think we have to factor in the weapons as well.

Put it this way, let's put a bear and a gorilla in a wrestling match. A bear should win quite handily, but the bear isn't completely ragdolling the gorilla.

A gorilla can produce way more force than a leopard.

I agree, a leopard is powerful, just not as high of a power level as a gorilla.

Gorillas are killed by 100lbs cats, a tiger or lion having a 1.5x gap on them isn't unreasonable. They would be killed in a few seconds in a fight.

That's because of their natural weapons, not their actual power.

Would you extend this to human vs human fights too? Like do you consider Sakuraba to have a higher power level than Kevin Randleman? Or Ryan Hall than Mike Tyson, because he'd probably leg lock Mike and break his knees?

Exactly. Tyson obviously has the higher power level because he can produce the most force. Power level doesn't promise victory.

I don't understand your example as ki attacks aren't remotely the same as stealth attacks and neck bites. Those are tactics. I think in-universe the scouter does measure intellect and how well you can use your strength in its battle power readings, which is why I don't believe animals like gorilla's and leopards would be higher than like 12-15.

Yeah, that's where I think gorillas land. Somewhere in the 12-15 range. A leopard definitely has a lower power level than a gorilla.

Theoretically they have been estimated to be like 10x stronger than humans but they wouldn't be a 50 on the scouter.

Yes, going by pure strength feats isn't the way to go. Also, you have to consider who we are talking about here. Compare them to our strongest humans. Remember, we have our top humans deadlift 1,000 lbs and so on.

Isn't it intellect and precision? What about things like armlocks or even doing a skilled takedown? They're using leverages, in a way "cheating".

They have vastly superior tactics and weapons. These shouldn't affect power level.

Imagine giving someone with a power level of 5 massive teeth and claws, that would be cheating and another power level of 5 would have no chance.