PLG Power Level List

[Dagon]

Yeah, after much research, I've concluded he never attained Super Saiyan in the Future Timeline. If you look in the Super manga, he's also depicted in Base as well.

There's a lot of funky things that come up if Vegeta got Super Saiyan in that timeline, I think we are best off assuming he didn't as the manga suggests.

That's quite the straw to grasp from one image of base Vegeta, which doesn't prove he didn't have SSJ, just that he wasn't in SSJ state at that moment.

What weird things happen if Vegeta had SSJ?

 

[Power Level Guy]

That's quite the straw to grasp from one image of base Vegeta, which doesn't prove he didn't have SSJ, just that he wasn't in SSJ state at that moment.

It's certainly more evidence than Vegeta actually having Super Saiyan.

What weird things happen if Begeta had SSJ?

Some numerical issues.

Future Gohan > Vegeta makes sense, but how strong is Vegeta? As strong as when Goku died according to some guides, right?

Yardrat Goku > Future Trunks > Future Gohan

Future Gohan > Future Vegeta

Yardrat Goku = Future Vegeta

Paradox created.

 

[Dagon]

It's certainly more evidence than Vegeta actually having Super Saiyan.

No it's not. It just means Toyotaro decided to draw him in base.

Some numerical issues.

Future Gohan > Vegeta makes sense, but how strong is Vegeta? As strong as when Goku died according to some guides, right?

Yardrat Goku > Future Trunks > Future Gohan

Future Gohan > Future Vegeta

Yardrat Goku = Future Vegeta

Paradox created.

The guide statement for Future Vegeta = Goku is for the TV special. You could segregate that to just be for the special and perhaps the anime too if you wanted to.

There was a side story written by Takao Koyama for the Anime Comics of the TV special(I think) where Trunks' inner voice describes his first meeting with Goku as "I never thought anyone could be stronger than Gohan."

Since that is an Anime comics companion story you could also say it only applies to the anime or if you want to be more pedantic just the anime comics.

It could be as simple as Gohan never reached Vegeta and Goku's level. Strictly speaking it's never really said that Gohan surpassed Vegeta, fans just like to conclude that based on Gohan's fervor for killing Androids.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well why would Gohan bother challenging the Androids if he knew he couldn’t beat them?

 

[Dagon]

Well why would Gohan bother challenging the Androids if he knew he couldn’t beat them?

Either he didn't know exactly how strong Vegeta was or he was going to try anyway just for the sake of trying to do the right thing.

 

[Power Level Guy]

ither he didn't know exactly how strong Vegeta was or he was going to try anyway just for the sake of trying to do the right thing.

Why wouldn't he know how strong Vegeta is? Gohan can sense ki and has a memory that can remember things for 20 years.

 

[Dagon]

Why wouldn't he know how strong Vegeta is? Gohan can sense ki and has a memory that can remember things for 20 years.

They don't always sense people from long distances. They can but it's not like they have a constant data feed to them. The Z fighters didn't really know how their powers compared in the Buu arc after 7 years of peace for example. Despite the fact that they can sense Mecha Freeza approaching Earth from space, for plot reasons they don't know each others powers despite living on the same planet .

 

[Power Level Guy]

They don't always sense people from long distances. They can but it's not like they have a constant data feed to them. The Z fighters didn't really know how their powers compared in the Buu arc after 7 years of peace for example. Despite the fact that they can sense Mecha Freeza approaching Earth from space, for plot reasons they don't know each others powers despite living on the same planet .

Gohan is right there with the Dragon Team when the Androids fight them.

 

[Dagon]

Gohan is right there with the Dragon Team when the Androids fight them.

In that case just say Gohan was going to try to save the day regardless.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

In the TV Special he rolls up saying he’s going to stop them for good.

It’s possible he didn’t even know Vegeta was a SSJ (Nobody did until he showed them) but unlikely (Common sense says such great power should be felt anywhere, and they only miss some Ki’s for plot purposes).

 

[Power Level Guy]

In that case just say Gohan was going to try to save the day regardless.

I don't think Gohan would willingly throw his life away if he knows he can't win at all. We have to stick with what is most logical and reasonable. What works best for the story is for Vegeta to never had attained Super Saiyan in the Future time line.

Vegeta barely pulls it off in the Present timeline, while doing insane, life on the line training.

Vegeta shows more strain than any other Super Saiyan, he must have just learned how to have done it of free will.

A Vegeta who barely got Super Saiyan in the Present timeline, no doubt didn't get it in the Future timeline with no pressure, no Goku and so on.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It’s possible he didn’t even know Vegeta was a SSJ (Nobody did until he showed them)

Gohan should have been able to witness the Androids vs the Future Dragon Team. He remembered Freeza's power all these years later, no reason he wouldn't remember Vegeta's.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan should have been able to witness the Androids vs the Future Dragon Team. He remembered Freeza's power all these years later, no reason he wouldn't remember Vegeta's.

Dunno. We don’t know if Gohan was actually there. Closest thing we have to a depiction of that final battle is Toyotaro’s bonus chapter, and Gohan was away collecting DBs with Bulma.

When did Gohan remember Freeza? I’m sure they have a memory for that, just want to know the scene.

 

[Papasmurf]

Dunno. We don’t know if Gohan was actually there. Closest thing we have to a depiction of that final battle is Toyotaro’s bonus chapter, and Gohan was away collecting DBs with Bulma.

When did Gohan remember Freeza? I’m sure they have a memory for that, just want to know the scene.

Pr sure he's referring to when Gohan said initial Mecha Freeza's power is nothing, he gets way stronger

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol23/014-iNfON.jpg

 

[Power Level Guy]

Dunno. We don’t know if Gohan was actually there. Closest thing we have to a depiction of that final battle is Toyotaro’s bonus chapter, and Gohan was away collecting DBs with Bulma.

Why was Gohan getting the DBs?

When did Gohan remember Freeza? I’m sure they have a memory for that, just want to know the scene.

Gohan remembers Mecha Freeza vs Yardrat Goku and relayed the details to Trunks.

 

[Papasmurf]

Why was Gohan getting the DBs?

Maybe Bulma wanted to wish for the androids' blueprints or some shit

 

[Power Level Guy]

Where is the chapter again? I want to look at it again. Which volume, when does it happen?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Return of Cooler

Vegeta 25,000,000
Goku 25,000,000
Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,250,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku 1,250,000,000
Metal Cooler 1,250,000,000

So they’re all a bit weaker than their Android Saga selves? I can see it.

But mind you, Cooler was never equal to them. He was somewhat weaker, got a Cyber-Zenkai and stomped Goku, but lost to Goku and Vegeta together.

Metal Cooler: 1,000
~ Repaired: 1,500
~ Repaired again: 2,000

 

[Power Level Guy]

So they’re all a bit weaker than their Android Saga selves? I can see it.

Yea, the characters are still taking from the Android 19/20 saga, but I think I just prefer it. Maybe 6 months to a year before they fight the Androids, I think that's nice.

But mind you, Cooler was never equal to them. He was somewhat weaker, got a Cyber-Zenkai and stomped Goku, but lost to Goku and Vegeta together.

Oh yeah? I thought he fought equally with Goku?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Oh yeah? I thought he fought equally with Goku?

Goku beats Cooler, Cooler gets a zenkai and Vegeta has to show up to save Goku. I remember because they even remade that scene from Goku vs 19 where Vegeta shows up and saves Goku from being chocked.