Pre enraged BoG SSJ2 Vegeta vs Fat Buu

[Natasha Romanoff]

I think the narrative makes clear that Vegeta surpassed Good Buu as he was confident on beating him which is something he said to Beerus, he doesn't had any reason to talk out his ass on here, also Bulma told Vegeta to beat on Beerus even after watching Good Buu getting slapped.

Who do you think wins here? In my case, I don't praise much Goku statement of being #1 while Vegeta being #2 to say that they are the strongest saiyans, for me, it's just a callback of his number 1 speech during the Kid Buu fight. Also this is the Fat Buu that fought SSJ3 Goku.

 

[Animelover5487]

Wasn't Vegeta scared shitless of Beerus? He was literally trembling while trying to attack Beerus until he striked Bulma.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Wasn't Vegeta scared shitless of Beerus? He was literally trembling while trying to attack Beerus until he striked Bulma.

He still told him that he would take care of Buu, I don't think he has any reason to lie on this.

 

[Hector]

Manga: Good Buu
Anime: SSJ2 Vegeta

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think I'll give it to Boo still. I don't think Goku and Vegeta improved much between the Boo Saga and BoGs.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I think I'll give it to Boo still. I don't think Goku and Vegeta improved much between the Boo Saga and BoGs.

Wasn't BoG SSJ3 Goku stronger than Ultimate Gohan? I can accept that if it were the case, but SSJ2 Vegeta is an stretch and I can justify him being 2nd place due to the rivality itself. I would put more attention to his shock at how Beerus defeated him in two blows, the Goten comment or Beerus commenting how Vegeta given him more entertainment than the saiyan on North Kaio planet.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Taking care of Buu doesn't have to refer to violence. Given the context of the scene, Vegeta didn't want things to get heated between anyone there. When Buu started fighting, Vegeta didn't attempt to stop him.

Going with Buu.

 

[SIAD]

Even Vegeta SSJ sweeps.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Taking care of Buu doesn't have to refer to violence. Given the context of the scene, Vegeta didn't want things to get heated between anyone there. When Buu started fighting, Vegeta didn't attempt to stop him.

Vegeta also didn't attempt to stop anyone of fighting Beerus nor was encouraged enough before of Bulma getting slapped, For me, the context speaks for itself as Buu is someone who was insolent with Beerus and he deserves to be punished. As opposed to Beerus doing it by himself, Vegeta offered his hand to do the job in order to try to relax Beerus.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Vegeta also didn't attempt to stop anyone of fighting Beerus nor was encouraged enough before of Bulma getting slapped, For me, the context speaks for itself as Buu is someone who was insolent with Beerus and he deserves to be punished. As opposed to Beerus doing it by himself, Vegeta offered his hand to do the job in order to try to relax Beerus.

This is a strange take...

You acknowledge that Vegeta tried to avoid physical conflict with everyone including Buu, yet take his statement to mean he'll get into a fight to keep things calm? Sounds counterproductive.

Vegeta was just saying and doing things to keep Beerus chill. Even going as far as to dance and entertain.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You acknowledge that Vegeta tried to avoid physical conflict with everyone including Buu, yet take his statement to mean he'll get into a fight to keep things calm? Sounds counterproductive.

Vegeta didn't try physical conflict against anyone afterwards, not against Buu at that point in time. Considering that Buu would not chill himself, he is offering himself as to punish Buu so Beerus would not take cards in the subject anymore and trying to make him get relaxed, so Beerus doesn't have to bother with that conflict anymore.

Vegeta was just saying and doing things to keep Beerus chill. Even going as far as to dance and entertain.

Would he lie to Beerus on those things? He didn't lie on the fact that Goku was his rival when he asked him what kind of relationship does he hold with him.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Vegeta didn't try physical conflict against anyone afterwards, not against Buu at that point in time. Considering that Buu would not chill himself, he is offering himself as to punish Buu so Beerus would not take cards in the subject anymore and trying to make him get relaxed, so Beerus doesn't have to bother with that conflict anymore.

You're not considering the scene in its entirety.

You're assuming that Vegeta intended to rough up Buu. You're entitled to your opinion, but brawling would cause a commotion, which is the opposite of what Vegeta wanted. That explains why Vegeta never followed through with fighting Buu, and halted himself from fighting Beerus until there was no choice.

If you want to scale Vegeta, then you ought to take a less opinionated route.

Would he lie to Beerus on those things? He didn't lie on the fact that Goku was his rival when he asked him what kind of relationship does he hold with him.

That's a loaded question. Show me the precise movie quotes that you're referring to and we can analyse them directly.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You're not considering the scene in its entirety.

You're assuming that Vegeta intended to rough up Buu. You're entitled to your opinion, but brawling would cause a commotion, which is the opposite of what Vegeta wanted. That explains why Vegeta never followed through with fighting Buu, and halted himself from fighting Beerus until there was no choice.

If you want to scale Vegeta, then you ought to take a less opinionated route.

Would Vegeta be thinking or considering all of those things? He would just fight Buu in order to Beerus not to do so and that he doesn't have to bother. It wasn't until Beerus actually makes it know how he would get had that happened that he is no longer planning on doing that.

Vegeta was already told from Beerus that he just disturbed him and yelled him to leave, so he would not be planning on fighting the other ones from that point.

That's a loaded question. Show me the precise movie quotes that you're referring to and we can analyse them directly.

I'm not talking about the movie, but from the anime. If anything there are the quotes:

Spoiler

 

[Spiral-Force]

@Natasha Romanoff

Vegeta's relationship to Goku isn't relevant.

Does a punishment have to equate to a fight? Your view hinges on that idea, but you haven't backed that up with anything. What you're saying isn't absolutely invalid, but it's a semantic argument that doesn't seem to line up with the narrative.

You said BoG for Vegeta. Would've made more sense if you said BoG Saga if you mean the anime, but don't worry about it.

Where do you specifically place Vegeta in your Buu Saga scale? Want to discuss this is in more depth.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Vegeta's relationship to Goku isn't relevant.

Vegeta was acting like a faithful dog to his owner, telling him the truth about everything and getting carried away by his nerves. He wouldn't lie to Beerus on anything.

Does a punishment have to equate to a fight? Your view hinges on that idea, but you haven't backed that up with anything. What you're saying isn't absolutely invalid, but it's a semantic argument that doesn't seem to line up with the narrative.

Don't know, how can Vegeta punish Buu otherwise and he would obbey? They are not near beings or anything, as well as doesn't have that much of a relationship. Considering that Buu was enraged and he wouldn't control himself someone has to make him understand at a bad rate, also as Vegeta said the saiyans do things with their fists.

You said BoG for Vegeta. Would've made more sense if you said BoG Saga if you mean the anime, but don't worry about it.

Where do you specifically place Vegeta in your Buu Saga scale? Want to discuss this is in more depth.

The only thing I know is that he can scale higher than Good Buu but I have him weaker than Kid Buu. Everything else is up to you to decide, it's too speculative at the end of the day.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Vegeta was acting like a faithful dog to his owner, telling him the truth about everything and getting carried away by his nerves. He wouldn't lie to Beerus on anything.

Vegeta didn't punish Buu like he said he would though. You still consider his statement to be the truth?

Don't know, how can Vegeta punish Buu otherwise and he would obbey? They are not near beings or anything, as well as doesn't have that much of a relationship. Considering that Buu was enraged and he wouldn't control himself someone has to make him understand at a bad rate, also as Vegeta said the saiyans do things with their fists.

You're asking this question because you've established in your mind that Vegeta would never lie to Beerus.

By doing that, you've boxed yourself into arguing for something that the storyline doesn't necessitate.

It's so much simpler to just take the scene for what it is. Which is: Vegeta trying to keep Beerus' mood under control, but still failing.

The only thing I know is that he can scale higher than Good Buu but I have him weaker than Kid Buu. Everything else is up to you to decide, it's too speculative at the end of the day.

Good Buu was able to give Kid Buu a fight, for quite some time too. It's also worth mentioning that since it was Buu vs Buu, the beating that Good Buu took was lasting damage. Buu would be very difficult to tame even by your scaling standards.

I obviously disagree with where you place Vegeta due to a lack of evidence, but even outside of that your perspective is questionable as hell.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Vegeta didn't punish Buu like he said he would though. You still consider his statement to be the truth?

Hmmm, after Beerus told him that he is disturbing him... Yes, I guess.

You're asking this question because you've established in your mind that Vegeta would never lie to Beerus.

By doing that, you've boxed yourself into arguing for something that the storyline doesn't necessitate.

It's so much simpler to just take the scene for what it is. Which is: Vegeta trying to keep Beerus' mood under control, but still failing.

Yes, and him considering capable of doing something which he says (punishing Buu) also is factored on this. Considering that Vegeta knows how strong Buu is and considers himself to be capable of defeating him, then there's no reason to doubt when he says that unless you are creating your own narrative and trying a different view on it.

Good Buu was able to give Kid Buu a fight, for quite some time too. It's also worth mentioning that since it was Buu vs Buu, the beating that Good Buu took was lasting damage. Buu would be very difficult to tame even by your scaling standards.

I obviously disagree with where you place Vegeta due to a lack of evidence, but even outside of that your perspective is questionable as hell.

The only character that was actually to give Kid Buu a fight was SSJ3 Goku. From Good Buu we have Kid Buu literally stopping him with his legs and practically overpowering him from the 2nd part of the fight.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Hmmm, after Beerus told him that he is disturbing him... Yes, I guess.

You've made this about supposed truth-telling, when in actuality it was just about Vegeta doing whatever it takes to stop the situation from escalating.

If anything, the truth is Vegeta wanted him to leave Earth as soon as possible. He wouldn't dare to say that to Beerus because he knows that could tick him off.

Yes, and him considering capable of doing something which he says (punishing Buu) also is factored on this. Considering that Vegeta knows how strong Buu is and considers himself to be capable of defeating him, then there's no reason to doubt when he says that unless you are creating your own narrative and trying a different view on it.

You're actually the one creating your own narrative by treating the term punishment as if it must mean fighting. We didn't see them battle either, so overall, you're going off of how you feel. It's no wonder why your position is disagreeable.

The only character that was actually to give Kid Buu a fight was SSJ3 Goku. From Good Buu we have Kid Buu literally stopping him with his legs and practically overpowering him from the 2nd part of the fight.

Kid Buu eventually wore him down from the accumulated damage that Good Buu took. That's what you'd expect given the strength difference. He still put up a fight, which even the spectators acknowledged.

Overall, your argument's foundation is subjective, and your rhetoric hasn't helped you either. All you've shown here is how NOT to scale a character.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You've made this about supposed truth-telling, when in actuality it was just about Vegeta doing whatever it takes to stop the situation from escalating.

If anything, the truth is Vegeta wanted him to leave Earth as soon as possible. He wouldn't dare to say that to Beerus because he knows that could tick him off.

And what notion is that so impossible for you to understand? Vegeta saying that he would beat up on Buu?

Yes, but for that he have to feel to some exent (if not the full exent) to be capable of doing what he said to do.

You're actually the one creating your own narrative by treating the term punishment as if it must mean fighting. We didn't see them battle either, so overall, you're going off of how you feel. It's no wonder why your position is disagreeable.

No, I'm just objectively thinking in Vegeta himself saying that saiyans do what they do using their fists and Buu's relationship with Vegeta isn't the best to come with so Buu can understand into words. We didn't get to see the battle because Beerus told him that he is disturbing and yelled him to gone, just because we never watched Vegeta vs Dabura does that seem that everything that Vegeta said about beating him is false- is that logical to you?

Kid Buu eventually wore him down from the accumulated damage that Good Buu took. That's what you'd expect given the strength difference. He still put up a fight, which even the spectators acknowledged.

Overall, your argument's foundation is subjective, and your rhetoric hasn't helped you either. All you've shown here is how NOT to scale a character.

You should check your evidence and inform better yourself, when Kid Buu was stopping Good Buu with his legs his ki hadn't been stated to be decreased. If anything, if we go by statements, Vegeta only said that Goku is the only one capable of fighting Buu (while watching his fight with SSJ3 Goku), but with Good Buu he just says that his ki is decreasing, as well as Buu just served to distract him while Goku could match blow for blow.

 

[Spiral-Force]

And what notion is that so impossible for you to understand? Vegeta saying that he would beat up on Buu?

Yes, but for that he have to feel to some exent (if not the full exent) to be capable of doing what he said to do.

No, I'm just objectively thinking in Vegeta himself saying that saiyans do what they do using their fists and Buu's relationship with Vegeta isn't the best to come with so Buu can understand into words. We didn't get to see the battle because Beerus told him that he is disturbing and yelled him to gone, just because we never watched Vegeta vs Dabura does that seem that everything that Vegeta said about beating him is false- is that logical to you?

You have a hard time accepting facts.

- A punishment does not inherently refer to fighting. Fact.
- Vegeta wanted to avoid fighting and only engaged in combat due to Earth being at risk. Fact.
- Power-wise, pre-enraged Vegeta did nothing significant in the plot. Fact.

You need a dose of rationality for a change. Take it or leave it.

You should check your evidence and inform better yourself, when Kid Buu was stopping Good Buu with his legs his ki hadn't been stated to be decreased. If anything, if we go by statements, Vegeta only said that Goku is the only one capable of fighting Buu (while watching his fight with SSJ3 Goku), but with Good Buu he just says that his ki is decreasing, as well as Buu just served to distract him while Goku could match blow for blow.

Didn't claim that Buu vs Buu was an even fight, just that he put up a fight. Goku acknowledged that they would have been finished without him - referring to that very fight. This is not my opinion; it's what the source material itself contains. How about you address the bigger point, which is that your scaling suggests that Vegeta would have a tough time trying to discipline Buu via battle. Not surprising that you chose not to address that here.