Pre-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SuperSaiyan2

Back in the day it was inconceivable for a SSJ1 to be that strong. See how Vegeta instantly assumes Goku was a SSJ2 simply because of the Ki he felt. You could bring up the Grade forms, but I don’t see why Gohan would be talking aboutstuff Kaioshin doesn’t know about.

It goes like this:

SSJ Gohan: 70
~ SSJ2: 140

SSJ Goku/Boo Saga SSJ Wall: 100
~ SSJ2: 200

It’s pretty simple. Nothing about Grade forms or Goku having some sort of stronger SSJ2. SSJ2 Gohan is beyond the strongest SSJ1, but Goku is further beyond because he is the strongest SSJ1, and thus the strongest SSJ2.

Look at the circles indicating the needle is spinning like crazy, it’s not stuck in a single measure. Maybe the anime can help.

Spoiler: 2:50. Even Lord Spopovich is trembling before SSJ2 power.

You already posted the tidbit saying there were different sorts of Kili Meters. That’s how he can tell how strong is goons are. And this goes both ways: How could Dabra know he’s above 3,000 Kilis if the meter maxes out at 3,000?

 

[SSJ2]

You could bring up the Grade forms, but I don’t see why Gohan would be talking aboutstuff Kaioshin doesn’t know about.

He's not, he's referencing SSJ2 in general which Kaioshin is more than aware of. I brought up the Grade forms because it's an exact copy of the quote you're getting so hung up on. This notion of "further surpassed" implying that Goku is at a power level beyond the standard SSJ2s is contradicted by the quote I posted earlier.

Chapter: 474 (DBZ 280), P3.3-8, P4.1, P7.5
Context: Goku demonstrates the different forms of Super Saiyan to Boo
Goku: “First, this is my regular state. This is Super Saiyan. Then this is what I showed your before, a Super Saiyan that has surpassed Super Saiyan…’Super Saiyan 2’, you could call it. [ ] And so…[ ] This…Ev-even further surpasses that…[ ] …This is Super Saiyan 3. Sorry that took so long. I’m still not used to this transformation.”

Goku is demonstrating that "further surpassed" is referring to SSJ3 in general. The same applies to SSJ2. There is nothing being compared aside from regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 as I've said before. The Viz translation which focuses on context clearly felt the same way:



This is no different than Herms' translation. Both are directly telling us that the damage is greater because it's Super Saiyan 2. You are desperately trying to inject the word "further" into a comparison of Gohan and Goku when it's simply not the case.

Look at the circles indicating the needle is spinning like crazy, it’s not stuck in a single measure. Maybe the anime can help.


You already posted the tidbit saying there were different sorts of Kili Meters. That’s how he can tell how strong is goons are.

Yeah, you could be right. I guess I'll have to take the anime's word on this. In any case, I found evidence that proves the Kiri meter Babidi had was read from right to left.

Spoiler: SSJ Goku Kiri

Spoiler: Kiri meter after Yakon dies

You can see pretty clearly that the meter is at 0 on the right side after Yakon was killed and Goku had regressed to Base. So Babidi's model did max out at 3,000 Kiri as I have said.

And this goes both ways: How could Dabra know he’s above 3,000 Kilis if the meter maxes out at 3,000?

Because they have other meters.

 

[SIAD]

He's not, he's referencing SSJ2 in general which Kaioshin is more than aware of. I brought up the Grade forms because it's an exact copy of the quote you're getting so hung up on. This notion of "further surpassed" implying that Goku is at a power level beyond the standard SSJ2s is contradicted by the quote I posted earlier.

Chapter: 474 (DBZ 280), P3.3-8, P4.1, P7.5
Context: Goku demonstrates the different forms of Super Saiyan to Boo
Goku: “First, this is my regular state. This is Super Saiyan. Then this is what I showed your before, a Super Saiyan that has surpassed Super Saiyan…’Super Saiyan 2’, you could call it. [ ] And so…[ ] This…Ev-even further surpasses that…[ ] …This is Super Saiyan 3. Sorry that took so long. I’m still not used to this transformation.”

Goku is demonstrating that "further surpassed" is referring to SSJ3 in general. The same applies to SSJ2. There is nothing being compared aside from regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 as I've said before. The Viz translation which focuses on context clearly felt the same way:

View attachment 691

This is no different than Herms' translation. Both are directly telling us that the damage is greater because it's Super Saiyan 2. You are desperately trying to inject the word "further" into a comparison of Gohan and Goku when it's simply not the case.

Yeah, you could be right. I guess I'll have to take the anime's word on this. In any case, I found evidence that proves the Kiri meter Babidi had was read from right to left.

Spoiler: SSJ Goku Kiri

View attachment 693

Spoiler: Kiri meter after Yakon dies

View attachment 692

You can see pretty clearly that the meter is at 0 on the right side after Yakon was killed and Goku had regressed to Base. So Babidi's model did max out at 3,000 Kiri as I have said.

It would be 0 Kiris in case Goku's power was 0 Kiris and that is not the case.

That Gohan mentions that Goku and Majin Vegeta are using a Super Saiyan level higher than SSJ, does not mean that Gohan has not been in SSJ2, but rather that he makes that comment because Goku and Majin Vegeta were turned into SSJ at the beginning.

 

[SSJ2]

It would be 0 Kiris in case Goku's power was 0 Kiris and that is not the case.

It's at 0 Kiri because it stopped measuring. Surely you can see the needle at the right side of the meter. That's where it starts from.

 

[SIAD]

It's at 0 Kiri because it stopped measuring. Surely you can see the needle at the right side of the meter. That's where it starts from.

You are right.

However, the main point is that Goku SSJ's Ki should be 3,000. In case the maximum reading capacity was 3,000 and Goku SSJ had exceeded it, they would have given us to understand. In addition Dabura knows that he can defeat someone with 4,000 Kiris, which makes us suppose that they can measure 4,000 Kiris with his device. Babidi asked for the best apparatus to be brought to him.