Prime Mike Tyson vs Khabib in a street fight

[Spiral-Force]

I didn't specify them having knowledge or not, but to make this even, I'd say both would have knowledge. Even more so since when Tyson was in his prime, Khabib was very young, so the fight wouldn't take place by then. The fight would be in a hypothetical scenario when both are in their prime and since it's a hypothetical, it could be in a case where at the same time they both knew of each other expertises. If Khabib hadn't knowledge of Tyson either, it could be fatal to him as he maybe wouldn't approach Tyson with the same cautious of already looking for a take down.

You seem worked up over me pointing out basic logic. Would you mind defining prime Khabib?

Khabib may be heavy, but the resilience to take in heavy punches goes a little beyond that. Heavier guys than Khabib who were fully prepared to take strong punches from Tyson, couldn't handle well after receiving 2 well connected blows.

Referencing adversity that Tyson's boxing opponents faced against his power doesn't exactly mirror an MMA fighter vs boxer match like we have here. Khabib would have his own approach, so you're gonna need to flesh out your point, otherwise, it just seems like you're rehashing what you've previously said.

It just seems unlikely to me that Khabib could approach Tyson and take him down without getting punched once. And one thing to take into note is that when Khabib takes his opponents down, applying all the techniques firstly to execute it, some don't try to execute heavy punches because they think it wouldn't be a threat to Khabib. I'd say Tyson, knowing the explosives on his hands, would very well explore it to avoid the take down. And since many times the head is a little exposed to execute a take down, it could be very dangerous to Khabib. Once Khabib fought a Brazillian guy that was later caught on steroids, he had a harder time taking him down and actually remembering well he couldn't take him down that effectively at all. So the time Khabib would take to drop Tyson could be delayed enough to Tyson execute his mortal punches... even more accounting to the fact they are bare hands punches.

The first half of this is something we've covered; i.e. threat levels that both pose to each other. I stand by the reasons I laid out for Khabib being the greater threat overall.

The second half of this at least brings something new to the table. Tibau is known for having supreme takedown defense, and that was pretty early on in Khabib's career. He's improved significantly since then, and even during his championship reign, he often talked about how he was still improving his wrestling. You haven't really mapped out how the Tibau situation translates to Tyson.

Once on the ground, Khabib probably would his way, but that's an IF. And even still, Tyson could catch him by surprise with a punch in that position. I remember that in the Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen fight, the latter was pressuring Silva constantly on the ground, but Anderson caught him with a big punch while on the disfavored ground position which visibly had an effect on him.

You may not realise, but catching someone by surprise often means that it's not perceived to be the standard outcome. Doesn't sound convincing in terms of likelihood. Silva's win was an absolute shock to people considering what transpired for the majority of the fight leading up to that moment.

 

[ahill1]

You seem worked up over me pointing out basic logic. Would you mind defining prime Khabib?

I'm not worked up at all. Mind pointing out to when I was?

The point is... saying Tyson would be taking into account Khabib's take down main strength isn't a new variable I introduced more so than you saying Khabib would try to execute it as early knowing Tyson's punching power.

Referencing adversity that Tyson's boxing opponents faced against his power doesn't exactly mirror an MMA fighter vs boxer match like we have here. Khabib would have his own approach, so you're gonna need to flesh out your point, otherwise, it just seems like you're rehashing what you've previously said.

I didn't say it mirror an MMA fight, nor did I intend to go that way. What I mean is that way bigger guys couldn't handle Tyson's punches well for years... so landing one in Khabib could be fatal. What it boils down to is whether Khabib could get Tyson in unfavorable position before Tyson can connect a heavy punch. And again, even in the process of taking someone down, the wrestler generally leaves parts of their body exposed to some punches. Khabib shrugged many against his division opponents... not against one of the heaviest punchers in the world.

The first half of this is something we've covered; i.e. threat levels that both pose to each other. I stand by the reasons I laid out for Khabib being the greater threat overall.

Yes, and as I reiterated, it seems unlikely to me Khabib could avoid getting punched. You believe Khabib poses a bigger threat, I don't. Opinions vary. And I've already laid out why I think Tyson could be more mortal. Notice I say could, not would.

The second half of this at least brings something new to the table. Tibau is known for having supreme takedown defense, and that was pretty early on in Khabib's career. He's improved significantly since then, and even during his championship reign, he often talked about how he was still improving his wrestling. You haven't really mapped out how the Tibau situation translates to Tyson.

I mentioned Tibau because he was later caught on steroids iirc, and that may have given him an extra boost to stop being taken down by Khabib. Since Tyson is big, heavy, that could delay the time needed for Khabib to take him down, making it easier for Tyson to punch him more times.

Not to mention that McGregor isn't that good of a wrestler, his main specialty is stand up fight. In the 3rd round he got in some good shots on Khabib without this latter being able to take him to the ground like in the other rounds. So it isn't simply, many times, leaping into your opponent and taking them to the ground. Many times, an opening has to be made via exchanging blows, which is why one of the times Khabib took McGregor to the ground was when he got a good punch to the chin. Swap McGregor by Tyson, and getting in some heavy punches from Tyson in that situation could have KO'd Khabib.

Jon Jones, a specialist wrestler, doesn't always manage to execute his ground game either. Gustaffson came from boxing and everything he didn't want was a ground battle. He avoided many take downs. And even before Jones attempted the take downs, he had to engage in a hand to hand battle first.

Except for some instances in which the opponent completely manages to execute their wrestling very early, like Chimaev did in his last fight in which he leapt towards the guy's legs, but that's not a frequent occurrence.

You may not realise, but catching someone by surprise often means that it's not perceived to be the standard outcome. Doesn't sound convincing in terms of likelihood. Silva's win was an absolute shock to people considering what transpired for the majority of the fight leading up to that moment

What I meant is that if a punch from Silva in that position already shaked Sonnen a little bit when Sonnen was on top, it isn't far fetched to think Tyson could very well attempt and get a big punch in that position. The arms are many times free to whoever is on the ground.

I agree tho that once the fight is taken to the ground, it'd be an immense difficulty. But it's not easy to do that without getting punched at least a couple times. Specially if Tyson sees Khabib approaching, he could already see to punch him where he is coming from. Punch him when he's clinching. Or avoid Khabib getting in a close range too soon and catch him with a big punch beforehand. Going to Tyson's leg could lead to Tyson connecting a big punch to the head considering Tyson's sharp reflexes.

 

[Spiral-Force]

I'm not worked up at all. Mind pointing out to when I was?

The point is... saying Tyson would be taking into account Khabib's take down main strength isn't a new variable I introduced more so than you saying Khabib would try to execute it as early knowing Tyson's punching power.

It's obvious. Writing a long-winded response in an attempt to sidestep facts certainly gives off that vibe. Of course you'll deny it but whatever. You have bigger things to worry about here than defending your mood.

How is (1) Khabib knowing Tyson and (2) making use of his wrestling anything new? The first is a fact, and the second thing is a reasonable assessment of what his gameplan would be.

I didn't say it mirror an MMA fight, nor did I intend to go that way. What I mean is that way bigger guys couldn't handle Tyson's punches well for years... so landing one in Khabib could be fatal. What it boils down to is whether Khabib could get Tyson in unfavorable position before Tyson can connect a heavy punch. And again, even in the process of taking someone down, the wrestler generally leaves parts of their body exposed to some punches. Khabib shrugged many against his division opponents... not against one of the heaviest punchers in the world.

My point is, those guys that were on the receiving end of Tyson's punches had no choice but to stand with him. Clinching in boxing is also very limited, with the one initiating it only having the option to hug the opponent to try and get some energy back and avoid further punishment. While in MMA, the grappler could move to the opponent's back and look to slam them, for example. Tyson would be outside of his comfort zone and it could be argued that his punches won't be as effective here since his punching ability is moulded for boxing specifically. Even MMA fighters that can supposedly fight off their back with elbow strikes that they have drilled for years tend to struggle in getting their shots off accurately. It's just a different ball game.

Yes, and as I reiterated, it seems unlikely to me Khabib could avoid getting punched. You believe Khabib poses a bigger threat, I don't. Opinions vary. And I've already laid out why I think Tyson could be more mortal. Notice I say could, not would.

It's important to keep the conversation fresh though. Treading over previously stepped territory kinda takes the shine away from an otherwise interesting discussion. It's more stimulating when both sides consider this when formulating responses. It's just something I've become more conscious of as a debater. Not only does it sharpen my own abilities, but it makes conversations more enjoyable in general.

I mentioned Tibau because he was later caught on steroids iirc, and that may have given him an extra boost to stop being taken down by Khabib. Since Tyson is big, heavy, that could delay the time needed for Khabib to take him down, making it easier for Tyson to punch him more times.

But the underlying factor is that they are very different competitors. A bigger guy can still be taken down and controlled, especially without the necessary training to fend off a myriad of positional threats. It's also worth mentioning that heavyweight divisions in combat sports are often characterised as being slower paced. That's why an exceptional boxer like Fury has been described as moving like a cruiserweight despite his size, for example. Iron Mike and Khabib are both quick, but being smaller helps with explosiveness. It's doubtful that Tyson can adapt accordingly to a level change that even seasoned grapplers have trouble reacting and adjusting to.

Not to mention that McGregor isn't that good of a wrestler, his main specialty is stand up fight. In the 3rd round he got in some good shots on Khabib without this latter being able to take him to the ground like in the other rounds. So it isn't simply, many times, leaping into your opponent and taking them to the ground. Many times, an opening has to be made via exchanging blows, which is why one of the times Khabib took McGregor to the ground was when he got a good punch to the chin. Swap McGregor by Tyson, and getting in some heavy punches from Tyson in that situation could have KO'd Khabib.

Jon Jones, a specialist wrestler, doesn't always manage to execute his ground game either. Gustaffson came from boxing and everything he didn't want was a ground battle. He avoided many take downs. And even before Jones attempted the take downs, he had to engage in a hand to hand battle first.

You really chose to reference this fight? Conor got dominated in the grappling and wrestling, and Khabib had the best strike of the fight. Khabib would likely have finished him even faster if Conor didn't cheat multiple times or if there were no rounds like in a street fight. It's odd that you make a callback to a fight in which Khabib mauled the opponent, and act like this has any relevance to Tyson.

Why does Jones having a tough first fight with Gustafsson matter to Khabib vs Tyson? All 4 of these guys are different fighters, with Tyson being especially different from the other 3 due to only being a boxer.

Except for some instances in which the opponent completely manages to execute their wrestling very early, like Chimaev did in his last fight in which he leapt towards the guy's legs, but that's not a frequent occurrence.

This just seems like weak rhetoric.

How about you focus more on the wrestler in THIS matchup than name dropping other MMA fighters who have their own ways of doing things? Come on now.

What I meant is that if a punch from Silva in that position already shaked Sonnen a little bit when Sonnen was on top, it isn't far fetched to think Tyson could very well attempt and get a big punch in that position. The arms are many times free to whoever is on the ground.

It just seems like you're dwelling too much on IF statements, and relying on Tyson having comparable scenarios despite this being an entirely different playing field than what he's used to.

I agree tho that once the fight is taken to the ground, it'd be an immense difficulty. But it's not easy to do that without getting punched at least a couple times. Specially if Tyson sees Khabib approaching, he could already see to punch him where he is coming from. Punch him when he's clinching. Or avoid Khabib getting in a close range too soon and catch him with a big punch beforehand. Going to Tyson's leg could lead to Tyson connecting a big punch to the head considering Tyson's sharp reflexes.

The more you say this, the more I think of the phrase 'easier said than done'. You put a lot of faith into Tyson's ability to punch in an unconventional setting. He's up against a guy with considerably different footwork and distance management than him or his boxing contemporaries. Punching to your side without being able to turn your body into it is far different from a front-facing punch, even when the latter isn't telegraphed to generate more power. Same goes for punching while the opponent tries to armbar you, or go for a neck crank or triangle choke. This is well within Khabib's domain.

 

[ahill1]

@Spiral-Force

It's obvious. Writing a long-winded response in an attempt to sidestep facts certainly gives off that vibe. Of course you'll deny it but whatever. You have bigger things to worry about here than defending your mood.

In other words, not a fact and just a feeling you have. I'm writing long responses to go in depth into what I think isn't right with whatever you're pointing at. Otherwise, I could easily take a long post from you and say you're getting worked up too. Maybe you like projecting your feelings onto others too much. I think you're the one getting worked up actually... as you do in most arguments. And that kills many people's motivation in engaging with you for too long, as you're ever so quick to resort to side edge comments in every post. Stop sounding so much of a spoiled teenager. It's not just weird, but annoying as fuck. Maybe now I'm getting worked up seeing your constant irritating debating style is just a constant.

How is (1) Khabib knowing Tyson and (2) making use of his wrestling anything new? The first is a fact, and the second thing is a reasonable assessment of what his gameplan would be.

Why wouldn't Tyson not know Khabib? This is a hypothetical battle. Both could know each other or both couldn't. I didn't go in depth as how this hypothetical bout would take place.

My point is, those guys that were on the receiving end of Tyson's punches had no choice but to stand with him. Clinching in boxing is also very limited, with the one initiating it only having the option to hug the opponent to try and get some energy back and avoid further punishment. While in MMA, the grappler could move to the opponent's back and look to slam them, for example. Tyson would be outside of his comfort zone and it could be argued that his punches won't be as effective here since his punching ability is moulded for boxing specifically. Even MMA fighters that can supposedly fight off their back with elbow strikes that they have drilled for years tend to struggle in getting their shots off accurately. It's just a different ball game.

It's a different ball game, but you can't assure Khabib would manage to move to Tyson's back without Tyson being able to land a punch on him. Boxers use special techniques with their legs as to prevent and difficult opponents getting away and running from their range, as Manny Pacquiao specified in his training lessons. So it's far from sure Khabib would just get in a very comfortable position vs Tyson without suffering some kind of punishment. Besides, going to the back implies going out of the opponents vision field first. If Khabib attempted it very soon, Tyson would notice his movements and could act accordingly. That's likely to happen when he managed to make the clinch and use his wrestling in a more efficient way, allowing him to get the back of his opponent, as happens with many fights.

It's important to keep the conversation fresh though. Treading over previously stepped territory kinda takes the shine away from an otherwise interesting discussion. It's more stimulating when both sides consider this when formulating responses. It's just something I've become more conscious of as a debater. Not only does it sharpen my own abilities, but it makes conversations more enjoyable in general

Ok, but not always will we be apt to come with something new specially if the answer doesn't warrant such. We both presented valid possibilities: you think Khabib's wrestling would take the best of Tyson and exceed his punching, and I think Tyson's punching poses a bigger threat as the odds of him connecting one or more before he's taken to the ground is higher to me. So in this response I didn't feel the need to present something new as your response didn't come as a direct and inherent contradiction to the scenario I think mostly likely would play. You said elite wrestlers take opponents down quickly even more so when they're aren't wrestlers and I agreed... but I noticed that the fight generally starts with a certain distance between both opponents, prompting Tyson to lay out his game first and even when take downs happen very quickly, it isn't an instantaneous thing, like in less than a second... time needed for Tyson to react and punch Nurmagomedov.

You really chose to reference this fight? Conor got dominated in the grappling and wrestling, and Khabib had the best strike of the fight. Khabib would likely have finished him even faster if Conor didn't cheat multiple times or if there were no rounds like in a street fight. It's odd that you make a callback to a fight in which Khabib mauled the opponent, and act like this has any relevance to Tyson.

You missed the point. My point wasn't to say McGregor put in a good and competitive fight. My point was to say that, even though Khabib was the best wrestler by far and Connor's main weapon was his striking, McGregor still caught him with quite a few shots and actually won the 3rd round of the fight. Khabib took him with a good punch to the face which dropped him in the 1st or 2nd round, but in the 3rd round Connor was visibly the one getting the best of Khabib in h2h... meaning a good striker is still expected to not get instantly to the ground against Khabib and can get in good shots against him, as happened in the fight. McGregor's punch just weren't heavy enough to knock or bother Khabib. Tyson's is on a whole different level.

Why does Jones having a tough first fight with Gustafsson matter to Khabib vs Tyson? All 4 of these guys are different fighters, with Tyson being especially different from the other 3 due to only being a boxer.

Because Gustaffson had mainly a boxing background and while he trained take down defenses, it was clear that his boxing was a threat to Jon Jones. And it took time until Jon Jones got in a position in which he attempted a take down. And both Jon Jones and Gustaffson were middle heavy weights... now we're comparing a scenario of a heavyweight boxer, with one of the heaviest striking in the world, against an opponent 3 classes below Jones.

This just seems like weak rhetoric.

How about you focus more on the wrestler in THIS matchup than name dropping other MMA fighters who have their own ways of doing things? Come on now.

Because this is a match we have to look at other opponents with a wrestling and boxing background to make a better judgement... as comparing solely both fighters will take the conversation to stop at the first post. It's obviously relevant when I'm looking at fighters who have a wrestling specialty as Khabib like Jon Jones and Chimaev. I obv know they aren't the same fighters, but I'm picking their style in fighting to try to look at all angles. It amazes me how you can't see what I'm trying to do. Maybe you just can't look and extrapolate your thinking too much and operate in a mechanic way of analyzing things.

It just seems like you're dwelling too much on IF statements, and relying on Tyson having comparable scenarios despite this being an entirely different playing field than what he's used to.

Everything is an IF, as this is a hypothetical match. There's no way to approach this without some or many IFs.

The more you say this, the more I think of the phrase 'easier said than done'. You put a lot of faith into Tyson's ability to punch in an unconventional setting. He's up against a guy with considerably different footwork and distance management than him or his boxing contemporaries. Punching to your side without being able to turn your body into it is far different from a front-facing punch, even when the latter isn't telegraphed to generate more power. Same goes for punching while the opponent tries to armbar you, or go for a neck crank or triangle choke. This is well within Khabib's domain.

It's obviously a different fighting style, but Tyson was used to fight enemies that had huge foot working and tried to avoid punches. He eventually fell against someone who did it very well, yeah. But he had huge timing and precision. And an armbar would likely occur if both were on the ground. If it's an armbar where Tyson can get up, this leaves him enough room to punch Khabib, possibly making him to loose it... or even stomp his head, as this is a street fight situation.

 

[Spiral-Force]

In other words, not a fact and just a feeling you have. I'm writing long responses to go in depth into what I think isn't right with whatever you're pointing at. Otherwise, I could easily take a long post from you and say you're getting worked up too. Maybe you like projecting your feelings onto others too much. I think you're the one getting worked up actually... as you do in most arguments. And that kills many people's motivation in engaging with you for too long, as you're ever so quick to resort to side edge comments in every post. Stop sounding so much of a spoiled teenager. It's not just weird, but annoying as fuck. Maybe now I'm getting worked up seeing your constant irritating debating style is just a constant.

The fact that your rant extends beyond the scope of this argument makes it crystal clear that you're worked up. And judging by the end of your paragraph, you're starting to realise that.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're so bothered by me, why conversate with me? That's what's "weird" here.

Why wouldn't Tyson not know Khabib? This is a hypothetical battle. Both could know each other or both couldn't. I didn't go in depth as how this hypothetical bout would take place.

Because prime Tyson from the 20th century can't possibly know of the Khabib that he's fighting.

If you disagree, then that clarifies that you're not interested in objectivity.

It's a different ball game, but you can't assure Khabib would manage to move to Tyson's back without Tyson being able to land a punch on him. Boxers use special techniques with their legs as to prevent and difficult opponents getting away and running from their range, as Manny Pacquiao specified in his training lessons. So it's far from sure Khabib would just get in a very comfortable position vs Tyson without suffering some kind of punishment. Besides, going to the back implies going out of the opponents vision field first. If Khabib attempted it very soon, Tyson would notice his movements and could act accordingly. That's likely to happen when he managed to make the clinch and use his wrestling in a more efficient way, allowing him to get the back of his opponent, as happens with many fights.

Tyson is good at dictating his positioning in his own profession, but it's a stretch to assume he'd have similar success with a guy coming at him from unfamiliar angles. It's fair to be sceptical in this regard.

Ok, but not always will we be apt to come with something new specially if the answer doesn't warrant such. We both presented valid possibilities: you think Khabib's wrestling would take the best of Tyson and exceed his punching, and I think Tyson's punching poses a bigger threat as the odds of him connecting one or more before he's taken to the ground is higher to me. So in this response I didn't feel the need to present something new as your response didn't come as a direct and inherent contradiction to the scenario I think mostly likely would play. You said elite wrestlers take opponents down quickly even more so when they're aren't wrestlers and I agreed... but I noticed that the fight generally starts with a certain distance between both opponents, prompting Tyson to lay out his game first and even when take downs happen very quickly, it isn't an instantaneous thing, like in less than a second... time needed for Tyson to react and punch Nurmagomedov.

I already mapped out how each of our takes differ, and tried to steer the conversation in a way that can enable progress since you have a habit of repeating yourself.

A punch isn't guaranteed to land effectively, or even at all when someone shoots for the legs. This ought to be even more apparent when the one being shot on doesn't do MMA.

Now, are you going to go on about Tyson's punches again, or are you finally ready to move on from this talking point?

You missed the point. My point wasn't to say McGregor put in a good and competitive fight. My point was to say that, even though Khabib was the best wrestler by far and Connor's main weapon was his striking, McGregor still caught him with quite a few shots and actually won the 3rd round of the fight. Khabib took him with a good punch to the face which dropped him in the 1st or 2nd round, but in the 3rd round Connor was visibly the one getting the best of Khabib in h2h... meaning a good striker is still expected to not get instantly to the ground against Khabib and can get in good shots against him, as happened in the fight. McGregor's punch just weren't heavy enough to knock or bother Khabib. Tyson's is on a whole different level.

If anything, Khabib standing with Conor in the 3rd round and not taking any significant damage showed that Conor wasn't a serious threat on the feet anymore. Khabib's wrestling pressure in the earlier rounds weakened him, and he could have got an earlier finish if Conor didn't violate the rules.

(1) There are no rounds in a street fight, (2) both Tyson and Khabib would be starting with full energy, and (3) Khabib has no reason to deliberately stand with Tyson, so your "point" falls flat.

Because Gustaffson had mainly a boxing background and while he trained take down defenses, it was clear that his boxing was a threat to Jon Jones. And it took time until Jon Jones got in a position in which he attempted a take down. And both Jon Jones and Gustaffson were middle heavy weights... now we're comparing a scenario of a heavyweight boxer, with one of the heaviest striking in the world, against an opponent 3 classes below Jones.

Gustafsson has nothing to do with Tyson. Completely different fighters in completely different disciplines.

You previously agreed that Khabib is much heavier during these times, yet you're referring to his lightweight class now? You're so inconsistent.

Because this is a match we have to look at other opponents with a wrestling and boxing background to make a better judgement... as comparing solely both fighters will take the conversation to stop at the first post. It's obviously relevant when I'm looking at fighters who have a wrestling specialty as Khabib like Jon Jones and Chimaev. I obv know they aren't the same fighters, but I'm picking their style in fighting to try to look at all angles. It amazes me how you can't see what I'm trying to do. Maybe you just can't look and extrapolate your thinking too much and operate in a mechanic way of analyzing things.

Tyson has no wrestling, yet in your mind, cherry-picking adversity that MMA fighters had against other MMA fighters somehow helps Tyson's case. This is sad.

Everything is an IF, as this is a hypothetical match. There's no way to approach this without some or many IFs.

It's obviously a different fighting style, but Tyson was used to fight enemies that had huge foot working and tried to avoid punches. He eventually fell against someone who did it very well, yeah. But he had huge timing and precision. And an armbar would likely occur if both were on the ground. If it's an armbar where Tyson can get up, this leaves him enough room to punch Khabib, possibly making him to loose it... or even stomp his head, as this is a street fight situation.

But the IFs you use to back Tyson don't sound convincing, and you're quite predictable at this point.

Go ahead, go on about Tyson's punches again like a robot if that's what floats your boat.

 

[ahill1]

@Spiral-Force

The fact that your rant extends beyond the scope of this argument makes it crystal clear that you're worked up. And judging by the end of your paragraph, you're starting to realise that.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're so bothered by me, why conversate with me? That's what's "weird" here.

Yeah, like I said, maybe now I'm worked up, seeing as you haven't matured and resort to childish ways constantly.

I like talking to people, that's why. Even if they're jackasses like you.

Because prime Tyson from the 20th century can't possibly know of the Khabib that he's fighting.

If you disagree, then that clarifies that you're not interested in objectivity.

And again, this fight takes place in a hypothetical scenario. Did you expect for current Khabib to be teleported to the time Tyson was in his prime? Why not Tyson suddenly gain his physical and mental prime magically here to fight Khabib, having already known about Khabib? This is all hypothetical, and the fact you accused me of changing the rules means you can't think logically.

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Tyson is good at dictating his positioning in his own profession, but it's a stretch to assume he'd have similar success with a guy coming at him from unfamiliar angles. It's fair to be sceptical in this regard.

Guys who fight Tyson, mainly knowing about his punch power, would try their best to avoid getting tagged too much. And MMA fighters don't move on an alien way of moving in a way they'd disappear from a boxers field of vision. They could go for the legs, or throw kicks, and try to take to the ground, that's the main difference. But the moves won't be a huge saying in dictating on whether Tyson would have way more problems in hitting them in a way or another. Smaller guys are faster, so hitting them is more difficult overall. But still, weight divisions generally mean these small guys would suffer way more in higher divisions as while they can move better, getting tagged may be fatal.

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I already mapped out how each of our takes differ, and tried to steer the conversation in a way that can enable progress since you have a habit of repeating yourself.

A punch isn't guaranteed to land effectively, or even at all when someone shoots for the legs. This ought to be even more apparent when the one being shot on doesn't do MMA.

Now, are you going to go on about Tyson's punches again, or are you finally ready to move on from this talking point?

You haven't mapped out, all you did was focus on Khabib's ground game, which I admitted, is elite level. But I've already proposed scenarios as a counter, as in, a take down doesn't happen in less than a second many times. And Tyson can punch Khabib when he tries to clinch and execute his game. It isn't guaranteed, but can very well be. When you shoot for the legs, parts of your body, like your back, are exposed. Tyson can very well exploit that. He doesn't do MMA, but it doesn't mean he won't act accordingly and use his best weapon in a situation like this.

Now, are you going to go on about Khabib's grappling again, or are you finally able to come up with some new and interesting thing?

If anything, Khabib standing with Conor in the 3rd round and not taking any significant damage showed that Conor wasn't a serious threat on the feet anymore. Khabib's wrestling pressure in the earlier rounds weakened him, and he could have got an earlier finish if Conor didn't violate the rules.

(1) There are no rounds in a street fight, (2) both Tyson and Khabib would be starting with full energy, and (3) Khabib has no reason to deliberately stand with Tyson, so your "point" falls flat.

You talk about violating the rules by Connor but forget this takes place in a street, where no rules like sticking your toes to the grades or anything is established... talk about thinking logically.

There're no rounds in a street fight, but Khabib didn't just jump to Conor and tried to take him instantly. Many times the grappler will have to create an opening to get to the ground.

You talk about full energy, but you yourself admitted McGregor was the one with less energy at the time he got the best of Khabib h2h in the 3rd round. So what are you on about?

He has no reason, but you also don't know if his strategy of going to the legs or a take down very early, at the start of the fight will be effective, without getting a punch, so my point doesn't fall flat, so try again. Besides, even punches in unfavorable situations could hurt Khabib badly or make him loose his grappling.

Gustafsson has nothing to do with Tyson. Completely different fighters in completely different disciplines.

You previously agreed that Khabib is much heavier during these times, yet you're referring to his lightweight class now? You're so inconsistent.

Maybe you don't know what comparing other fights with fighters with similar backgrounds means, meaning you can't think outside the box. Maybe I need to draw to you why I'm using those examples.

Khabib in his prime was when he defended his titles many times and was weighing less. But you can pick current Khabib at his usual weight if you want, although he isn't currently practicing heavily to win titles like before. The only one inconsistent is yourself.

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Tyson has no wrestling, yet in your mind, cherry-picking adversity that MMA fighters had against other MMA fighters somehow helps Tyson's case. This is sad.

You haven't seen Khabib taking a punch from Tyson's calibre yet in your mind he could just effectively bring him down to the ground and have his way with him. Very sad indeed.

But the IFs you use to back Tyson don't sound convincing, and you're quite predictable at this point.

Go ahead, go on about Tyson's punches again like a robot if that's what floats your boat.

Maybe they don't seem convincing to you, who are a total closed box and will always go with the mentality to handwave anything.

Go on, keep talking about Khabib's Sambo while pretending you are offering real pieces of evidences