Questions regarding Tien and Buutenks

Spiral-Force

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What PLs would you estimate for both of their blasts in their brief clash?

It's interesting that Tien resorted to a Kikoho for a blast that was intended to kill Dende.

Was it a case of Buu using way more power than necessary, or Tien?
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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I think Tenshinhan has only gotten slightly stronger since the Cell Saga since he’s still below Kuririn. I’d imagine Tenshinhan has improved the Shin Kikoho greatly to compensate for his lack of physical strength (akin to Piccolo developing the Makkankosappo to surpass Goku), so maybe he’d actually incinerate 2nd form Cell this time.

I think it was Boo using more power than needed. Makes more sense for a strong guy to fire a strong blast than for a weak guy to fire a strong blast. Not to mention the Kikoho is Tien’s trump card, I don’t think he’d use it if he didn’t need to.
 

Spiral-Force

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@GreatSaiyaman123 So given that the Kikoho is a technique that draws on one's life energy, you think Tien can somehow increase it (and to a vast extent)? Curious about the logic behind that.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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@GreatSaiyaman123 So given that the Kikoho is a technique that draws on one's life energy, you think Tien can somehow increase it (and to a vast extent)? Curious about the logic behind that.

Not because it draws on life energy, it's because Ki techniques are always improved through the series. Goku replaced the Kamehameha with the Super Kamehameha at the end of the first series, and by the Cell Saga Piccolo considered the Saiyan Saga version to be outdated:

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P4.2
Piccolo: “I won’t let you get away…A Kamehameha of the kind of level as before won’t do you any good.”

As the characters get stronger, they also have to improve their techniques. The Shin Kikoho seems to be Tenshinhan's way to keep up with the higher tiers since it could paralyze Cell, so I think it makes sense he'd focus on improving that since his physical strength has run into a wall of sorts.
 

Spiral-Force

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@GreatSaiyaman123

That's a surface level way of looking at it. A technique can be improved, but the characteristics of the technique should be considered when judging how it's improved. Attacks that impact the user's life are generally avoided by fighters; that's why they're often portrayed as desperation moves, like we saw with Chiaotzu's self destruct and Majin Vegeta's explosion. Tien is a rare case of someone trying to further hone something that carries such a risk. When the Shin Kikoho was introduced, the only thing noteworthy about it was the immense pushing force that it produced. It did no damage to Cell, though it was useful as an obstruction tactic, so it's an improvement over the original nonetheless.

One can come to this conclusion from reading the manga. And on top of that, this aligns perfectly with how the Shin version is described in Daizenshuu 4.

"A technique that increases the force of the Kikoho. An attack that becomes possible when one has improved their abilities through intense training. Tenshinhan fired this technique to stop Cell from moving when Cell was trying to absorb No. 18, but he used up all of his power and collapsed."
 

ahill1

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I honestly don't know. I still have my doubts in regards to how I view the Shin Kikoho power wise.
 

Boo Brand Milk

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It may contradict what :troll and the guidebooks said but Tien was clearly a force. Not that he wouldn't lose against Semi Cell in a fight still but he was clearly super saiyan level considering he didn't die instantly from Buu.
 

Hector

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I think Tenshinhan has only gotten slightly stronger since the Cell Saga since he’s still below Kuririn.
Not necessarily. Yamcha hadn't seen Tien since the Cell Games, so he couldn't be sure Krillin was still the strongest.
 

Spiral-Force

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It may contradict what :troll and the guidebooks said but Tien was clearly a force. Not that he wouldn't lose against Semi Cell in a fight still but he was clearly super saiyan level considering he didn't die instantly from Buu.
Scaling from survival feats is a mess because the dominant fighter could be sandbagging as much as they want (like when Krillin didn't instantly die from Perfect Cell's kick). I think the only case where this angle might be worth talking about is if the one doing the stomping is said to be going all out during the onslaught, which didn't happen with Buutenks.
 
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