Saiyans

[p123]

Alright just watched Bardock's movie.

Bardock > Dodoria's Elite Forces > Bardock's Crew

That's for sure. Dodoria's Elite Forces have the mighty Appule, I'm sure these guys are similar in power to the ones who fought the Namekians. Listen, Bardock is nowhere near 10k. Appule and company are able to keep up with him.

Vegeta doesn't have to be stronger than Daddy.

Nappa is probably close to his power on Earth.

Raditz and Turles Dragonball Zero looks cool and possibly semi canon, I gotta read it more.

Bardock and others are classified as low class Saiyans, they should not be very strong.

Dragonball Zero backstory of Raditz seems pretty damn cool.

 

[Void]

The movie flat out says he is getting close to 10,000....

 

[p123]

Yet all of his feats suggest the opposite.

 

[Pyro]

Movie 7 says 13 > 16, so it must be true despite feats supporting otherwise.

The Bardock special says he's getting close to 10k, but it can't be true because of his lackluster feats.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I didn't see the Bardock movie in forever, but didn't he take those henchmen out by basically fighting smart? I even recall him taking some hits that looked quite painful in that battle. That tells me that they were a lot stronger than the shitty henchmen on Namek. Those guys were ass.

Also, Dodoria hit Bardock with a huge mouth blast and Bardock still got up from it. Not only that, but he's able to fight through countless henchmen later on despite not being healed. No way is he less than 10k there. We see what a quick mouth blast did to a 3k Namekian Warrior. The level seems accurate enough to me.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Bardock- 10.000
King Vegeta- 11.000
Kid Vegeta- 12.000
Nappa- 6.000
Freeza's elite soldiers- 1.500
Bardock's squad- 1.250

 

[p123]

M7's feats suggest SA13 > Android 16 though KP. SA13 tanks Piccolo in superior fashion to what Cell is capable of. When he tanks Piccolo, he doesn't even budge. It's one of the best tanks in all of DB. Sounds like you have some character bias.

Bardock had to work very hard to take out guys that 3k Namekians absolutely smoked. So yea, there's no way he's sniffing 10k, not even close. This is the proper logic.

 

[Pyro]

M7's feats suggest SA13 > Android 16 though KP. SA13 tanks Piccolo in superior fashion to what Cell is capable of. When he tanks Piccolo, he doesn't even budge. It's one of the best tanks in all of DB. Sounds like you have some character bias.

Because Cell got blown into the water? He still received no damage from an attack that even #17 wanted no part of and proceeded to rape Piccolo and #17. When S13 tanks a Light Grenade, BBA, or Burning Flash, I'll consider him having superior feats. Until then, ki > melee, and that's logical.

Bardock had to work very hard to take out guys that 3k Namekians absolutely smoked. So yea, there's no way he's sniffing 10k, not even close. This is the proper logic.

[youtube]v_74NIGmECI[/youtube]

Watch again and witness the power. He basically one-shotted the Appule looking motherfucker right out of the gate. He choked out the second guy and then let dude's teammate finish the job. The only time he had trouble was against the last two goons, and that was because he got distracted by random visions of Goku fighting Vegeta. When he got his wits back, he easily vaporized them. Skip to 7:28 to see how he fared against Dodoria's mouth beam, then tell me if someone around the 1-5k range could manage that.

 

[p123]

Cell is stated to have been damaged by the Light Grenade.

Bardock is stronger than I thought here. I can give him a 1.5x advantage, maybe a bit more, but for that showing, how much more can you give him?

Bardock is a low class Saiyan, he is not sniffing mid or upper tier. He's nowhere near the King. If he really was 10k, there would be a shitload of hoopla about it. His best feat is taking out these guys. Which anyone 4k or so could do.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Chapter: 370 (DBZ 176), P10.1-2
Context: after Cell is hit by Piccolo’s powerful ki blast
No.18: “He did it!”
No.16: “No, he didn’t. [Cell] has hardly taken any damage.”

Whatever damage there was, it was negligible, and not even visible.

 

[Pyro]

Cell is stated to have been damaged by the Light Grenade.

"Hardly" is barely worth mentioning, and it's still a giant ki blast rather than some measly little punches. dawg

Bardock is stronger than I thought here. I can give him a 1.5x advantage, maybe a bit more, but for that showing, how much more can you give him?

Bardock is a low class Saiyan, he is not sniffing mid or upper tier. He's nowhere near the King. If he really was 10k, there would be a shitload of hoopla about it. His best feat is taking out these guys. Which anyone 4k or so could do.

He's a low-class Saiyan that was constantly battling, and him and his team is the reason Freeza was alerted to the Saiyans' potential as a problem. King Vegeta's power level is never stated in the movie, and the line about Bardock getting near him is dub-only. If anyone 4k or more could do what Bardock could do, why not just let him keep his near 10k level like it's stated? He survived Dodoria's mouth blast with fairly minor damage, after all, so I'd still like to see someone at only 4k surviving that, considering we saw the 3k Namekians get gutted.

 

[Pyro]

Chapter: 370 (DBZ 176), P10.1-2
Context: after Cell is hit by Piccolo’s powerful ki blast
No.18: “He did it!”
No.16: “No, he didn’t. [Cell] has hardly taken any damage.”

Whatever damage there was, it was negligible, and not even visible.

This debate is kind of nonsensical anyway because we're comparing a charged ki blast to a typical melee assault. S13 blew Piccolo away easily after tanking his attacks (with "budge" lines lulz), and Cell brought Piccolo down in a couple hits as well.

 

[p123]

Fair enough about Bardock with Dodoria. But didn't the Saiyan bodies protect him here as well? Also, shouldn't they really all been evaporated?

 

[Void]

Movie 7's feats show nothing indicating 13 > 16.

 

[p123]

Superior tanking, manhandling ability by SA13. Piccolo is literally Krillen vs Perfect Cell. The tank is the most impressive tank in the series thus far.

 

[Victorious]

Cell is stated to have been damaged by the Light Grenade.

Both Viz Manga and Japanese Anime say Cell received NO damage.

The Gekiretsus Kodan could be 3x Kamiccolo's power.....we don't know...so Super #13 most certainly does not have any more impressive feats and Imperfect Cell does. Tanking punches with budging is a very impressive feat. But taking a super amplified blast without receiving a scratch is a more impressive feat. This is common DB sense here.

 

[Pyro]

Even Vic acknowledges that much, P. It isn't bias when it's the most logical deduction. An amped ki attack being taken with no or basically insignificant damage is far more impressive than slightly budging from a flurry of punches and kicks. Getting clubbed by a bat and developing a barely noticeable bruise on your cheek is more impressive than your head almost barely staying stationary from someone punching you a couple times. Search your soul and find your ticket to the solution; you know it to be true.

S13 can totally be on par with #16, but there's no reason to have him stronger, let alone much stronger like Semi-Perfect Cell tier.

As for the bodies, yeah, they probably should've been vaporized considering Bardock could vaporize the goons earlier with a likely smaller gap in power, but whatever. He needed it for character development.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Semi-Perfect Cell tier is lol.

 

[p123]

I agree overall, just saying SA13 gets shitted on. Who's to say SA13 couldn't tank Piccolo's attack just as easily? I think he could. He is the strongest android after all. Lol

 

[Pyro]

He does get shat on but it's mostly because of the overwhelming wanking he got years ago that started all this Semi-Perfect Cell dookie. Maybe he could've tanked Piccolo's Light Grenade, and maybe Cell could've tanked his punches. We don't know. It's best to just put them both on the same level.